Where would you rank vintage integrated tube amps?

910ken

Active Member
I know a lot of this is opinion and subjective. But also there are things like ease of service, or known weak areas, or bang for the buck. It seams like Fisher and H. H. Scott are on top, but what about Knight, Harmon Kardon, Pilot, Strom burgh Carlson, Heathkit, etc.. Even Lafayette or Kenwood.

I am eventually going to splurge and get one of these. McIntosh is really out of my range. So, to get a really good taste of the tube sound do I need to pony up and get a Fisher or even an ST70? I have a couple consoles but they are still projects. I was thinking of getting a recapped integrated in the mean time. I just don't want to spend in the $300 and not be getting what I really want. What would be the models to go for on the various brands. I have a Maggie 9304 and it is so different when I run the preamp out of my Marantz 2250b. I would like to hear the all tube sound though.

Also, I am just trying to have fun with this hobby so would appreciate some conversation on this topic. I am sure it has been touched on before. I have learned a lot from this site. Thaks, Ken
 
I was thinking of getting a recapped integrated in the mean time.

A properly rebuilt integrated can provide great performance. Mostly you'll be faced with 2 tiers of power output, 7189 based units and 7591 ones at roughly twice the power. As with any tube amp, finding a good speaker match for your power & listening tastes is critical. The main downside is that it is a closed system, the amplifier and preamp are married together. They sound how they sound, you can't readily swap in a new amp or preamp. However, if you are looking to put a system together for music listening vs. gear swapping then integrateds are fine. And, there are some great ones from the other brands too. It all comes down to the quality of the output transformers and most used good ones. In your situation I would likely look for one of those they tend to not carry the premium of Fisher & Scott units. In general, integrateds make your life easier as there is less stuff to worry about. They just tend to get on about their business.

Good Luck & welcome aboard!
 
The main downside is that it is a closed system, the amplifier and preamp are married together. They sound how they sound, you can't readily swap in a new amp or preamp.

This is certainly true to a certain extent, but the ability to easily "roll" tubes, can change the sound dramatically--especially the smaller tubes in the front-end that really have the greatest impact on tonal/sound character--and generally won't "break the bank" to experiment. As long as you have solid iron (transformers) there are a million "tweaks" that can be made for not a lot of $$$.
 
Agree with Selmerdave, don't ignore Sherwood. I have several Fisher and Scott units, but I'd put my S8000 IV receiver (7868 tubed amp; same tube basically as 7591 but different base) up with them sonically. Dynaco can be very good, too, as you already must know in mentioning the ST-70. Sadly, no experience with the other brands you mention, but one hears very good things about Heathkit. Watch out with Harmon Kardon--many of their units are based on the 7355 power amp tube that is almost extinct and nearly impossible to find. They can be wired for a different output tube (6L6GC), but that may be more than you want to take on.
Good luck!
 
Another approach would be to ask for views of the brands/models that you are inclining towards, or have access to including offers from BT.
 
HH Scott 299D and LK-72B (kit version of same) are within your budget and IMO as good as they come at any price. You will need about $200 more in caps and parts plus a little patience for the restore. For the money, the sound is more tubey entertaining than my MC275V, which I found to sound more solid state than I like. It's the 5R4 rescifier that gives the 299D it's tube magic. IMO and IME.
 
One thing to be aware of is that 7591s are a little hard to find, and of the new production ones you may have to go with Tung-Sol instead of the less expensive EH as the latter don't always fit in gear with a case - I have two such units (Pilot 654 and Scott 340b)
 
Sherwood, Scott and Fisher are all pretty comparable. Very similar circuits, all are built well, largely it comes down to cosmetic preferences. Not everyone digs the Sherwood white faceplate. I have an S-7000 and an S-5500II

Stromberg-Carlson also made some nice stuff, circuit is well designed and they had a far better grounding system than most others. Looks are perhaps not their most awesome point. Not ugly, but to me they look a little cheap but its mostly the weenie little knobs. Have an ASR-433. Also, the phono stage in the 433 sucks.

Bogen stuff is also nicely made, sometimes with somewhat unusual circuit design but the performance is very good. They were made by engineers that were most well versed at building industrial sound gear and kinda look the part. I'd love to own a DB-230, its such an interesting integrated. I do have a DS-225 and a pair of modified MO-100A's.

Pilot stuff is interesting. I hear excellent things about the SA-232 and whatever the 240 integrated is. I have an SA-260 thats not bad and an FA-590 tuner/preamp thats pretty good. AC heaters on the FA-590 though so its slightly prone to hum, especially in phono mode. On my list of things to modify. The SA-260 has a well engineered power supply, the transformers are so-so, and the circuit is just not amazing. Physical layout sucks. No experience with their integrated amps but if they are built more like the FA-590 I think you'd be fine. Build and layout in that thing is pretty good.


Honestly to keep it reasonably priced, I'd modify the Magnavox 9300 to Dave Gillespie's specs, even if you don't go so far as changing the output transformers and run it. It will cost you less than replacing it with anything worth bothering with and give you a better amp for your efforts. Add a tube preamp later if you feel so inclined. Increasingly I'm kinda digging the Bottlehead Foreplay that I have been using recently with a comparable console amp. The two together should pair fine without costing half a mint.
 
Agree with Selmerdave, don't ignore Sherwood. I have several Fisher and Scott units, but I'd put my S8000 IV receiver (7868 tubed amp; same tube basically as 7591 but different base) up with them sonically. Dynaco can be very good, too, as you already must know in mentioning the ST-70. Sadly, no experience with the other brands you mention, but one hears very good things about Heathkit. Watch out with Harmon Kardon--many of their units are based on the 7355 power amp tube that is almost extinct and nearly impossible to find. They can be wired for a different output tube (6L6GC), but that may be more than you want to take on.
Good luck!
This is not true at all. The 7355 is a super reliable tube (made by GE) and is not impossible to find. They pop up regularly on the bay and elsewhere if you are looking. The Harman Kardon A500 is an excellent performer that rivals the Fisher, Scott, EICO, Sherman, etc. , and has the audio pedigree that persists until now. Not many companies from the "golden age of tube audio" are still around.
 
The 7355 is a super reliable tube (made by GE) and is not impossible to find.
You can also re-wire the socket and plug a 5881 in there. My Bogen DS-225 runs a set of 7355, I was able to buy a NOS sleeve (5) for pretty much the same price as a new production quad of 5881, and I didn't have to touch the socket. The original tubes were well worn but still functional. I have them as testing / beater tubes.
 
Wow, Thanks to ALL for your input. It seams there are a lot of good folks here who will take some time for a relative newbie. I used to work on giutar amps but pretty basic stuff and that was quite awhile ago. I have a lot to learn on Hi Fi but I have made a good start.

I have seen quite a bit of the Knight and Stromburg stuff up for sale in the past few months and just wondered where they fit. Thought I might find something mostly as good as the Fisher and such but at a little better price. I don't need a ton of power either. 10-15w per ch would be fine.

I have looked into a pre for my Maggie but it seams many don't have the same type adjustments, loudness, Bass, Treble, as the integrateds do. Especially new ones. Maybe I just haven't looked in the right place. I know that has been talked about as well .

I will get started on my consoles eventually, 63 Sylvania, and 61 GE. I have shown pics of these in other posts. Still might be a while though, maybe Spring. ( it just got crappy here in Cleveland and my business really pics up ).

Again, this is a fun hobbie and I am glad to be a part of this site. I bought my Maggie from an AK'r. Very nice guy.

Ken
 
Might be beyond your budget (and although a bit hard to find here,this may be easier in the US) but I would strongly recommend the Audio Research CA50.Produced between 1997 and 2001,so this might not fit your definition.As I get older the term ''vintage'' has gone onto a sliding scale:cool: Nevertheless,a truly good sounding and potent piece of kit.No phono though:(
 
For me I have two fisher's now and I think out of the three type's (Scott, Eico and Fisher) I think
the Fisher's are the easiest to work on because of the choice of parts they used (carbon film resistor) that hold
up better though the years and the nice sound though modern speakers.
 
Id love to get into tube gear. Just haven't had the nerve to jump in yet. The nice stuff seems expensive, and if it seems like a good price Im not sure how to check it over to see if its not trash.
 
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