Who has some killer subwoofers?

In looking at the specs, I would suggest ported. They will develop little bottom end in sealed and will require big cabinets for the best responce... My 10s have a lower FS :eek: and a better QTS for sealed than these units represent.
 
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Dual 10 cabinet... a few feet, 500 watts... It actually rolls really nicely :cool:

It houses dual Adire Koda 10s. They utilize Adire's patented XBL2 motor topology that reduces distortion (more natural sound), increases linear motor strength and lowers inductance (better transient responce, and strong recovery).

It is very clean, tremendous extention, extremely quick and precise with flawless transients, and one of the most transparent enclosed subs I have ever experianced.
 
Originally posted by sandt38
In looking at the specs, I would suggest ported. They will develop little bottom end in sealed and will require big cabinets for the best responce...
Actually, they develop huge bottom end sealed and in a small cabinet............

read on here
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1790

For a long, exhaustive treatise on the sub1500 and it's applications................

BTW, your Adire's are nice...........good stuff.........
 
Originally posted by mikebake
Actually, they develop huge bottom end sealed and in a small cabinet............

read on here
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1790

For a long, exhaustive treatise on the sub1500 and it's applications................

BTW, your Adire's are nice...........good stuff.........

That's odd. The low QTS indicates a motor more indicative of ported (it simply has too much motor for sealed apps), and the fairly high FS combined with the total Q appear ported oriented for best extention. Also, the very high efficiency is indicative of very large sealed applications as, quite contrary to poular belief, high efficiency drivers require large boxes ;). Also, efficiency is an easy number to fudge a bit and still remain within "acceptable" test standards. I will go into standards if you are interested, but to keep you from being bored more than I am about to make you, I'll leave that alone unless it is requested ;).

Just an FYI, a total Q (QTS) of .45 (it can be argued anywhere from .49-.4 so I round it off for arguements sake) and up is typically sealed, where less is ported. Very high Qs (over say 1.0) will work astoundingly well in dipole applications. However, I have found that many borderline QTS drivers with a low FS (say, sub 23 Hz or thereabouts) do fairly well in sealed applications. Another point of interest, QTS and FS are used for determining EBP, or efficiency bandwidth product. EBP is commonly used by beginning enclosure builders to determine sealed/ported preferances. However, I find EBP to be somewhat misleading when used literally for design constraints.

I never modeled it up to see the responce plots, nor did I run an EBP calculation, but the #s led me in that direction. I'll read the link this evening though.

By the way, thanks for the compliment. All the cabinet work, and crossover tweaks are done by me, but the drivers are all Adire ;)
 
The thread I referenced tells it all;
some selected quotes;

"Just installed BBPro and ran the numbers. No wonder those Revel subs sounded so good. The group delay is not as good as the 2235H or 2245H so it will not have quite the transient response, but boy does it have LF extension!

I am very tempted.....

One of the cool things about them is that they will go deep in a fairly small enclosure. I just called and they have 400 left. Sorry guys I may just take all of them. "

"As for a comparison between the 2242 and the JBL/Revel woofer, the JBL/Revel has as good or better VLF performance in a 3-4 cu ft box as the 2242 has in an 8-10 cu ft box. Above 45Hz the 2242 can put out a bit more output, but the JBL/Revel is capable of 119dB from about 25Hz up. In a home, do you need more? You will need a lot of horsepower to do this, but it can do it.

I have heard these woofers in their Revel enclosures a couple of times. I was very impressed. To be fair to Revel part of their $4000 price was due to the very sophisticated electronics that came with them."

""I think I will go the vented route. 4 cu ft with no EQ."

I would try 4.0 to 5.0 cubic feet sealed first. It will go almost as low as the old B212 (121A/121H in 2.0 cu. ft. sealed volume with no EQ) in that sized volume without EQ. You might prefer the improved transient response of the sealed enclosure. The driver is designed specifically for use as a sub in small sealed volumes.

"My calc showed a 1.6 cu ft box will require a fair amount of EQ."

True, that's what it was originally designed for. The designer of the REVEL15 driver runs two of them in their original Ultima Gem Sub boxes (1.5 cu. ft. sealed) which is also electronically EQ'd through the Revel amp. In his room response is flat to ~ 15 Hz. The designer recommends running a pair of them in rooms of ~ 3,000 cu. ft."
"A properly designed vented system cannot beat a properly designed sealed system in transient response. Transient response is directly related to frequency response, the shallower the roll-off the better the transient response. One might want to read up on the pros and cons of sealed versus vented systems. Neither is the be-all end-all. This particular driver thrives in the sealed enclosure just like the original 121A/121H did.

I looked at the numbers on this driver again and it will indeed match the old B212 in bandwidth when used in a 4.0 cubic foot sealed enclosure. Very impressive! A slightly smaller package than the old B380. All the bandwidth of the B212 with considerably more thermal and displacement limited power handling capacity and slightly higher sensitivity plus much lower distortion. What a deal!

Anyway, one would do well to try both sealed and vented and choose the one they personally prefer."

Etc. etc. etc. The thread evolves as guys actually got them and began testing etc. An interesting read, at least for me!!
 
subwoofers r us

My sub selection was based on a fair number of constraints. It must be:
1) Small, appx 1 foot square for WAF
2) Moveable by one person (for gigs)
3) Self powered, with both RCA and XLR inputs
4) Rugged
5) Oh yeah, capable of decent 25 Hz bass

I selected a Sunfire "True Subwoofer", Professional series.
Works well in the local 600 seat theatre. In my living room, it's occasionally scary.
 
i would be completely unable to render anything technical about sub-woofers and the physics of bass here, but, while attending the bottleheads meeting here in dallas last weekend, i was in the room while a couple of johan van zyl's single driver horns coupled with his BassMaxx sub were playing a kodo drummer concert, and when those guys hit the big drum, the air in the room absolutely DETONATED....

shrinkboy
 
Too bad PE doesn't have 4000 of them, so more guys could give 'em a whirl...............
 
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The JBL 1500SUB was originally designed for the Revel Gem Ultima Sub-15. A small sealed enclosure coupled with a contoured EQ amplifier. A Google search by the curious will probably pull up some information.

Of special note is the reinforced neck of the voice coil assembly which allows it to remain connected to the cone assembly when used in small, high pressure, sealed enclosures. All the other goodies it incorporates can be read about online. The long and short of it is, this transducer is SOTA in the same ilk as the JBL 1500FE and the JBL 1500AL. These are not "normal" or "typical" transducers.

The 1500SUB transducer is quite versatile and has found its way into other sub designs such as the vented JBL HB1500 for Japan and the sealed JBL TiK for Europe. It can be used in small sealed enclosures with contoured EQ boost on the bottom end of the passband or EQ cut at the top end of the passband to balance the response. It can also perform extremely well in vented enclosures, especially with 18 dB to 24 dB low pass filters such as found in AVRs.

One thing to remember when using modern software modeling programs for VLF design - it is pretty much useless to not include the desired active or passive low pass filter response and any high pass boost or cut filter responses.

So with all that having been said, you are agreeing that you need to manipulate the signal to keep smooth FR due to output losses down low... exactly what I said. I don't believe in electronic manipulation to achieve anechoic flat FR, which is why I suggested what I suggested. You suggest manipulating the signal, I suggest manipulating the cabinet. As a speaker designer and builder, I understand that audiophiles prefer a plug and play, rather than dealing with issues of electronic manipulation and the phasing issues that arise from such manipulation. By increasing the amplitude of the signal, or attenuating the amplitude of the signal (via EQ) we are also altering the phase to a certain degree. While many cannot hear this, there are those who can. TFM may not be affected but the reality of the situation is, that group delays are greatly affected, and they are audible issues with subwoofer systems that EQing low frequency signals affect the most, as they tend to peak at low frequencies.

FYI, I do understand a whole heck of alot more than you may think I do about speaker design and implimentation. As I stated in my post above, I never put the TS into a modeling program, I simply looked at the numbers and drew my own conclusions, so it was not a program that told me what I stated. In fact, I still have not entered the numbers into my program. A friend once said, the numbers can tell me more of the truth than the ignorant ear can. I am not saying you are the ignorant ear, but I am saying it is easier to deduct the truth from numbers, rather than second hand subjective information. ;)

Also of note, small sealed enclosures build less pressures than vented cabinets. A common misconception is that vented have an air leak and is not suceptable to high pressures. However the port is a timing mechanism that allows air to enter and exit the port at the same time as the driver does the same, creating up to 2X the internal pressure in the enclosure ;) . Just an FYI
 
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i have a polk audio psw505 box (bought on Ebay) with about 2lbs of polyfill, a 12 inch Dayton DVC subwoofer driver and a 250 watt Partsexpress Plate Amp (W/O the bass boost) and some floor spikes on a granite slab. it does the job, and does it well. my future project will be to attempt to build a 142L vented box (plans from adire) for the same driver and plateamp i have now. wish me luck, because my woodworking skills are not to great, but hey, have to try it
 
142L is healthy. Hey, have at it. Even if the cosmetics aren't great, just close your eyes and listen!!

MBB
 
luckily for me, cosmetics are th least important issue for me with home theater and 2 channel experience. :p:

definitly giving it a go, will probably go to home depot for the MDF tonight
 
SUBS

I have had Subwoofers for a long time. . . Since the 70s , my first was a 12 in JBL that came with my 3 piece L-212 speaker system OK but not great. . .

Around 1980 after I could not take the muddy sound from my L-150As any more(82) I bought a JBL-B-380 along with the JBL crossover (dont remember the model number) I drove it first with a Adcom GFA-1 for awhile then along came the 555 and I ran that bridged untill I got tired of the turn on thump blowing the grill off every time I turned it on. Finally I put a 565 on it and forgot about it. Taking the low bass off the 150s produced a spectacular sounding speaker.

Then I started moving all over the country and left it behind, since then I have owned powered subs from Velodyne, Klipsch, Definitive Technology, M&K, then my SVS driven with a 565 that I recently sold to texas42. . . .

Now thanks to BigYank I bought his AR-1s each one has a 15in Sunfire Sub and a 500 watt Sunfire amp. Right now this AR-1 setup sounds as good or better than anything I have owned. They are great, at least to my old ears. . .
 
Re: SUBS

Originally posted by gyusher
I have had Subwoofers for a long time. . . Since the 70s , my first was a 12 in JBL that came with my 3 piece L-212 speaker system OK but not great. . .
It sounds like you started with subs around the same time I did. I can count the number of people I knew personally on one hand who had their 3-piece L212 systems set up properly. VERY tough system to "get right" and that didn't go over well with dealers or consumers. Quite finicky with amplification too. It wasn't until Matti Otala helped come up with the Citation XX that I heard what a correctly set up L212 system was really capable of. Too user-unfriendly for most people.
 
I have this downfiring passive CV sub, dual VC, 12" roughly the size of a big coffee table, power it with two plate amps. It's in my son's room and gets things moving and shaking ;)
 
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