Why doesn't my Denon receiver sound as good my old Scott

[docloc]

Hello everyone. How about short story? I bought a new stereo system in 1978, a Scott 376 receiver, s197 speakers, Scott 76 turntable. I didn't use the system a lot, and for about the last 10 years it sat boxed up. I got the itch to set the system up, but was disappointed that the woofers foam had dried and split. I sent away for a kit to reform them ( actually got cloth surrounds), wasn't too tough a job. I cleaned the pots and switches with deoxit, sounded just like the old days. But I am getting old and much more lazy, I thought that a remote control receiver would be nice. I found a good deal on a Denton AVR 3806 and thought that the power specs sounded good. I hooked up my speakers and man what a disappointment. I studied the manual, looked at forums, and found that I could adjust bass and treble separately, still poor sound. It's as if the bass has been cut out. I have only the mains (Scotts) and an old set of Entec 8" with 68ohm capacitors inline to reduce bass to them. So only four speakers connected. I shouldn't have to use a sub box to get bass, the Scotts have 15" woofers. I went back to the 376 receiver and sweet sound comes out of the s197 speakers again. I went through the setup procedure on the 3806 with the microphone connected, selected which channels had speakers connected, hooked up a monitor to go through setup steps, still no full frequency sound. I mainly listen to classic rock, but usually have a tablet hooked up to listen to internet radio, and listen to country, rock, electronic music. Is it me, or the receiver? Thanks for listening.

 

[robgmn]

It's either of the receivers.
The Denon is probably more faithful to the input signal, but the Scott gives a more satisfying sound.
The Denon can be made to sound like the Scott if you wish, but if the Scott already gives the sound you like. so...

 

[superdog]

I think most 70s receivers have a signature sound that one gets accustomed to.I love my big Yamahas for the clean power at higher volumes just as much as my Sansui 331and Sherwood s7100a for the lower more relaxing sound.

 

[Lapslah]

I can't tell you the technical differences, but my experience is this - I have a Denon HT receiver that I've used for years as intended (HT) with a pair of AR 308HOs for mains. I bought the speakers after the receiver so I had never used them with anything else. I never liked those speakers. Til one day I unhooked them and brought them upstairs to audition a Pioneer SX-780 that I grabbed at GW. WOW! Those speakers sounded fantastic! I had had them for years at that point and never knew how good they were. I've since tried them with a couple other 2-channel amps with similar results. So my take is that HT amps are optimized for impressive sounding explosions, car crashes, and background noise, but they're just not musical. Whatever that means.

 

[Mamrak1]

That AVR-3806 weighs less than 39 lbs. How much of that do you think is dedicated to the power supply? Many audio amplifiers weigh from 50-75 lbs. easily. No AVR is going to compete with a high quality audio system, even one from the 50s or 60s.

 

[empirelvr]

That AVR-3806 weighs less than 39 lbs. How much of that do you think is dedicated to the power supply? Many audio amplifiers weigh from 50-75 lbs. easily. No AVR is going to compete with a high quality audio system, even one from the 50s or 60s.

Indeed. In my electronics class in college, the professor really hammered home that "the sound of an amplifier is the sound of it's power supply." Nothing beats an old fashioned power supply with a brick of a transformer and banks of beefy capacitors for a real gutsy sound when needed.

One reason I think AV Home Theater receivers sound lightweight (aside from not having beefy power supplies) is that they think the end user will more often than not be using a powered subwoofer with it. So a true, down to floor shaking response from the built in amps isn't that much of a priority. It's almost as if they have a non-defeatable high pass filter on the speaker outputs, even when set to "full-range" or "large."

 

[zzzzz]

It's as if the bass has been cut out.

Two thoughts:

(1) Most AVR's have a setting for the main speakers to control whether they are full range (usually called "Large") or just small satellites (usually called "Small"). If the AVR has the main speakers set up as "Small", you're not going to get much bass out of them. Also, if the AVR has any kind of crossover adjustment for a subwoofer either turn it off or set it to its lowest possible value.

(2) When you're using the Scott, is the Loudness turned on? That's going to add a lot of bass that you won't get from the AVR (which will almost never have a Loudness switch / button / function).

 

[runnin']

In the last 15 years, I've owned 7 HT receivers, 4 of them Denons. The HT receiver really can't do stereo imaging as well as a decent 2 channel receiver or integrated amp from the 70s/80s(note that I said DECENT). But that's because they are designed to employ 5 or 7+ speakers to recreate the theater sound. Two different things altogether, requiring different approaches.

 

[Drum]

Agree with the comment about the loudness button. 2 channel sounds so thin on my AVR, but sounds incredible on my stereo receivers with loudness buttons. I am a firm believer in the loudness button. It just makes the music sound full at low to moderate volume, which is where I usually am.

 

[marysdad]

I got started back into audio when our Denon AVR-3000 lost the ProLogic circuit after nearly 20 years. I got a turntable and some speakers, was very impressed with the 2-channel sound using the bypass circuit that avoided the digital signal processing. After a couple of years, it finally gave out. I got a very nicely restored Pioneer SX-950 and, wow, what a difference. The Denon AVR sounded good, but was not even in the same league as the Pioneer.

 

[bd1886]

Agree with the comment about the loudness button. 2 channel sounds so thin on my AVR, but sounds incredible on my stereo receivers with loudness buttons. I am a firm believer in the loudness button. It just makes the music sound full at low to moderate volume, which is where I usually am.

When I first recognized the benefit of this button I used it way too long at all levels of volume. Took me a while to realize that it's best for the volumes you described only! The difference on our mid range gear and lower can be huge in loss of balance especially.....button off as you poor watts in for sure.

 

[docloc]

Hello everyone, I am checking this post a couple times a day and taking in all responses. I do have the loudness on and also the high and low filters off on the Scott. I'll have to recheck the settings on the 3806 to see if it's on small or large. I don't remember seeing that option, I figure the mains would be full frequency. I did see an option to change how low the surround speaker could go, but not the main. Shawn

 

[hnash53]

I'm no fan of HT receivers... I have gone through 4 of them... and keep coming back to my humble mid-70s quad receiver. But...

...I would heed the comments made by others about making sure you have the HT receiver set up correctly. HT receivers have LOTS of settings. Getting all the bass you want should be EASY with a modern HT receiver.

And I've seen some loudness buttons and "bass enhancement" buttons on some HT receivers.

 

[tcdriver]

...I do have the loudness on and also the high and low filters off on the Scott....

Comparing a receiver with loudness on VS a receiver without loudness can easily explain the sound differences you are hearing. Although the Denon does not have a loudness function, it does have tone controls that can be used when listening in Stereo mode. For instructions on how to turn on and adjust the tone controls see pages 41 and 42 of your owners manual.

 

[toxcrusadr]

docloc, make sure there is not a Yes/No toggle switch for a subwoofer in those menus too. That will kill the low bass output on the mains whether you have them set to small or large.

I went through this same thing after I bought a Denon AVR1802 in 1998. Nice 5.1 receiver, loved the surround features, but music was...uninspiring. Wasn't till I found an SX-1250 in 2005 that I realized what I had been missing. The phono section in particular was like night and day.

All that said, try to train yourself to leave that loudness button off and listen to the music the way it was intended. Loudness buttons are a menace to the appreciation of music, most of the time.

 

[luddite]

In the last couple of decades the subwoofer has become an integral part of a sound system, so leaving it out would harm the intended acoustic performance of your new amplifier. Keep both systems, but upgrade the new one to meet its design spec for full enjoyment of what it's supposed to do. All of the subwoofers I've heard were playing contemporary commercial compositions and sounded like rubbish, but that's my taste in music, not the equipment, I expect.

 

[toxcrusadr]

I intended to suggest leaving the sub output OFF only when running full range speakers with no sub. If he had the Scotts running with no sub, the sub output should be off.

But I guess what you're saying is that HT receivers are designed with the assumption that a powered subwoofer will be used, and asking the receiver to power-amplify full range content all by itself may put a strain on it. I can see that. Bass requires most of the amp's muscle, all else being constant.