Why Doesnt Wharfedale and Goodmans get the Fame like Tannoy
- Thread starter Audioo
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It is more an issue of having to be of advanced years to remember the various models of high fidelity speakers from around the early fifties onwards, until the departure of the original manufacturers. Tannoy have outlasted their rivals and the non availability of spare parts is a valid reason why the Wharfedales and Goodmans do not command the same resale values. It is disheartening to view a repaired 12'' full range speaker such as an Axiom 22mK II when it has been fitted with a generic cone assembly and turned into a cheap sounding PA thingy. For serious collectors who appreciate the finer qualities of these vintage models, make sure that original cones and voice coils are fitted and fully intact especially the aluminium wire types. The usual warning applies to have the voice coils 'doped' , especially the Wharfedales ( Super 12 RS DD), to prevent the coil falling apart as a result of the cellulose cement failing. with age.
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bbqjoe
Void where prohibited
Dammit!
I'm forced to learn something new each day.
I've refoamed speakers before, but what the hell is doping coils?
It is not a case of a silly type of repair or tweak. It is a reference to using model aeroplane dope to coat a voice coil winding to ensure it stays together. There are better products available today that do not suffer the shrinkage and temperature problem of the old cellulose based solutions.
If you look at the audio magazine of the 1960's into the early 1970's you find there is very little written about Wharfedale speakers in general. Wharfedale did not advertise much and the rule back at the time if you didn't advertise your speakers you were not reviewed this is especially true in Stereo Review magazine. The Julian Lab reviews were the holy of hollies at the time and so far I have only found reviews of the the W25, and W60E speaker. Both of those review were in magazine issues that had Wharfedale add's. Audio magazine was so far the only magazine that I have seen regular advertising by Wharfedale. Wharfedale, at the time, was a marque mainly marketed in the East Coast concentrating in New England. The only reason why I know about the Wharfedale there was a stereo shop in Key West Florida that sold Wharfedale speakers. I was in the US Navy at the time, stationed at the Naval Air Station in Key Largo. The reviews at the time are dominated by AR, Altec Lansing, EV, KLH, University, Fisher, Scott, etc. A lot of the problems with Wharfedale speakers today are caused by abuse by later owners. It does not take much in wattage to drive any of the Wharfedale Speakers even the gigantic W90 is happy as a clam with no more than 45 to 50 watts. They are wonderful on a 20 watt tube amp. Right now I am listing to a pair of W35's, which were purchased by me at that Stereo shop in Key West, Florida 46 years ago. Else where on this form I chronicled my refurbishment of these wonderful speakers.
So many of the problems you see with Wharfedale speakers, and not just Warfedale in vintage speakers, is later owners abusing them them with to much power. An uneducated person looking at the gigantic W90 might think it needs a bunch of power to drive it and hit it up with 100 or more watts and wonder why it goes kablooey. The W90 is happy as a clam with a 20 Watt tube amp. Right now i am listening to my W35's they sound great with the 30 watts they are being driven with from the Dayton class "D" amp. If you don't have a nice tube amp to go with one of these vintage Wharfedales these Class "D" amp are a match made by Saint Vidicon himself.
This difficulty of getting parts for these Wharfedales is frustrating. When one of my W35's was DC'ed by a failing Onkyo AVR it took me five years to find the needed BIC 8950 8" woofer. Since I returned these old friends to service I have accumulated spare drivers for it and my W45's. I believe in the 2nd catechism of Saint Vidicon: If 't be true thee hath'l a spare part the original wilt not fail.
So many of the problems you see with Wharfedale speakers, and not just Warfedale in vintage speakers, is later owners abusing them them with to much power. An uneducated person looking at the gigantic W90 might think it needs a bunch of power to drive it and hit it up with 100 or more watts and wonder why it goes kablooey. The W90 is happy as a clam with a 20 Watt tube amp. Right now i am listening to my W35's they sound great with the 30 watts they are being driven with from the Dayton class "D" amp. If you don't have a nice tube amp to go with one of these vintage Wharfedales these Class "D" amp are a match made by Saint Vidicon himself.
This difficulty of getting parts for these Wharfedales is frustrating. When one of my W35's was DC'ed by a failing Onkyo AVR it took me five years to find the needed BIC 8950 8" woofer. Since I returned these old friends to service I have accumulated spare drivers for it and my W45's. I believe in the 2nd catechism of Saint Vidicon: If 't be true thee hath'l a spare part the original wilt not fail.
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Markoneswift
Quartz locked n ready to rock
My huge Goodmans Magisters say ' shut up, Tannoy'
My fantasy speaker is the Wharfedale Airedale.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
In the 1950's through around 1964, Wharfedale was advertised a lot in the USA HiFi magazines. British Industries Corporation also did an excellent job with marketing them in that era. Tannoy was and still is solidly represented in North America and always was.. Goodmans never really was very well marketed or sold in the USA. Also, Tannoy's Monitor series and HPD was seen and still seen as higher end today than either of the other two brands.
I think it's because Tannoys have way better tweeters. The full range Goodmans speakers sound good, I have had a few of them, Triaxiom 212C (sold), Axiom 150 MKII, and Axiom 22 MKII. The second two sound better to me. Check out pricing on the Goodmans Axiom 80, if you think Goodmans has been overlooked. The thing is, I think the Tannoy dual concentric design just sounds better than any of the Goodmans coaxials I've heard - the Goodmans tweeters just aren't as smooth and transparent. As for Wharfedale, I think they sort of transitioned from a prestige product in the 50s, to a regular consumer product in the 70s, and it damaged their reputation amongst audiophiles. I have never owned Wharfedale, so can't comment on sound quality.
Eddie13
New Member
Back in the day 1950’s 1960’s Goodmans were considered as good or better than Tannoy! My guess why Tannoy has the spin now is that unfortunately Goodmans got sold and resold to large vampire conglomerates that turned them from a fine speaker company to a cheap driver for rubbish portables and Tannoy did not. I don’t know why anyone would dis Goodmans tweeters my 212c drivers have horn tweeters and sound amazing they also have beautiful voice reproduction and 12” Woofers. They’re in factory made 6ply cabs with the ARU baffles and I got to audition them against Tannoy 12” Monitor Golds when I bought them. Yes they were cheaper but at the time I had the money but still would have taken the Goodmans. By the way I’ve seen Goodmans Axiom 80’s for $8000 US drivers only.
Ps if you go for models with cross overs get them recapped and never look back
thomo57
Super Member
I've got a pair of Goodman 212c in a large folded horn cabinet and anyone that listens to them wants to buy them.
The soundstage is to die for
I love them.
I also found a set of 301 with trebax and horn and crossover for a mate and he had the cabinets built and he loves them as well.
He says my 212's are a $20,000 speaker
The soundstage is to die for
I love them.
I also found a set of 301 with trebax and horn and crossover for a mate and he had the cabinets built and he loves them as well.
He says my 212's are a $20,000 speaker
savatage1973
Addicted Member
As already mentioned, I agree that a lot of the "disparity" comes from marketing and distribution (or lack thereof) on the part of Wharfedale and Goodman.
Tannoy also worked their way into the professional/studio market, which further increased their exposure to the audio press. Many well-known/respected studios and engineers used (and still use) Tannoy monitors.
Tannoy also worked their way into the professional/studio market, which further increased their exposure to the audio press. Many well-known/respected studios and engineers used (and still use) Tannoy monitors.
Wharfedale Speakers, took a real dive in reputation 1975ish with the ending of the Achromatic series. I subscribed to multiple audio magazines and Wharfedale just disappeared from advertising about that time. I tried to find out about Wharfedale but you could not even find them in the Mail order outlets of the time. I have since looked at what they had at that time. There was some good, and some bad. I got into Polk Audio about that time. Presently Wharfedale makes some very good speakers. One that has my eye for a future purchase is the bookshelf sized Diamond 225. It is getting holycow reviews by audiophiles.
Eddie13
New Member
Hey Thomo
I’d agree with that. I’ve read so many positive reviews about 212’s in front loaded horn design cabs. I actually have a second pair of those drivers and the plan is to do just that with them using an electrical x-over.
I’m listening to Howlin Woolf as I type this and even though it’s only iTunes through my (admittedly top spec Phillips Holland) tv’s headphone out Im using a stunning all valve preamp into a restored Leak Stereo 20 driving the 212c’s In those Goodmans Sherwood cabs, I’m digging it so much it’s near impossible to leave the room. Also the amp combo is giving volume levels more like a 300 watt ss.
It’s into the hi 90dB’s at 9 o’clock. Well I guess the Goodmans are around 105dB 1w1m!
Still I’d love the chance to hear those horn cabs of yours. Guess I’ll have to wait until I build some.
Would you have plans to share?
I’d agree with that. I’ve read so many positive reviews about 212’s in front loaded horn design cabs. I actually have a second pair of those drivers and the plan is to do just that with them using an electrical x-over.
I’m listening to Howlin Woolf as I type this and even though it’s only iTunes through my (admittedly top spec Phillips Holland) tv’s headphone out Im using a stunning all valve preamp into a restored Leak Stereo 20 driving the 212c’s In those Goodmans Sherwood cabs, I’m digging it so much it’s near impossible to leave the room. Also the amp combo is giving volume levels more like a 300 watt ss.
It’s into the hi 90dB’s at 9 o’clock. Well I guess the Goodmans are around 105dB 1w1m!
Still I’d love the chance to hear those horn cabs of yours. Guess I’ll have to wait until I build some.
Would you have plans to share?
thomo57
Super Member
The cabinets were built by a friend who gave them to me when he heard the Goodman in their original cabinet.
The cabinets the Goodman were in appeared to be spec built complete with the ARU.
The change to the horn cab was more than dramatic.
I've had another cabinet project since then with Coral 12" triaxials and they have been in place of the Goodmans for several months.
The Corals sound pretty good but the Goodman are better.
The soundstage of the Goodman is superb,the width is wider than the speaker position on some recordings.
They can be played at very low volume and still sound beautiful
Sorry l don't have the plans for them and today my friend who built them flies back to Singapore probably never to return to Australia.
I think they were based on a standard large horn design
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Eddie13
New Member
Thanks anyway mate
Actually I remember an article where a guy went through this process. He made two sets of those cabs, one with 212c’s and the other with a Tannoy ( can’t recall model) in the end he preferred the Goodmans too! Her gave some well grounded reasons for this as well.
Unfortunately I read this before getting my own 212’s and didn’t bookmark it. I’m pretty sure there were plans. I’m up on the far north coast NSW and there are plenty of carpenters around to do the work and I’ve got a timber mill at the end of the road
I’m not at all unhappy with my originals and find the Sherwood’s do the job now but I am going to replace the missing curtains that should hang between the driver and rear baffle. But are we ever satisfied? I’m pretty sure you wrote about your horn cabs somewhere else as I remember the part about your friend giving you his? Anyway it was after that the itch to try them myself started haha and it’s time to scratch!
By the way have you ever hooked the Goodmans to a more powerful tranny amp. I recently bought a Marantz 240! made back in ‘74 in the US when Saul was still activewhich I’ve had recapped and restored I’d love to see how the 212’s handle the extra watts as the Marantz is one of those vintage amps built to have a valve like sound. I’m thinking about the extra headroom for trad jazz and a bit of Ludwig Van?
Actually I remember an article where a guy went through this process. He made two sets of those cabs, one with 212c’s and the other with a Tannoy ( can’t recall model) in the end he preferred the Goodmans too! Her gave some well grounded reasons for this as well.
Unfortunately I read this before getting my own 212’s and didn’t bookmark it. I’m pretty sure there were plans. I’m up on the far north coast NSW and there are plenty of carpenters around to do the work and I’ve got a timber mill at the end of the road
I’m not at all unhappy with my originals and find the Sherwood’s do the job now but I am going to replace the missing curtains that should hang between the driver and rear baffle. But are we ever satisfied? I’m pretty sure you wrote about your horn cabs somewhere else as I remember the part about your friend giving you his? Anyway it was after that the itch to try them myself started haha and it’s time to scratch!
By the way have you ever hooked the Goodmans to a more powerful tranny amp. I recently bought a Marantz 240! made back in ‘74 in the US when Saul was still activewhich I’ve had recapped and restored I’d love to see how the 212’s handle the extra watts as the Marantz is one of those vintage amps built to have a valve like sound. I’m thinking about the extra headroom for trad jazz and a bit of Ludwig Van?
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Are you talking about in the US or in the UK?
Over in the UK, Wharfedale and Goodmans speakers were every bit as popular as Tannoy, sometimes more so.
Tannoy speakers were always higher priced because of their concentric drive units. In the 1980s, they produced some more budget (but still good) speakers using more conventional seperate woofers and tweeters. They also produced the weird and wondeful 600 series with their hexagonal cabinets, the higher versions of which had concentric drivers.
Wharfedale and Goodmans made some excellent speakers during this time. The tiny Diamond gave Wharfedale a useful boost in recognition with the reviews it got. They also experimented with metal tweeter domes and bayonet type driver moutings. Strangely, the E-series wasn't that well reviewed back then.
Goodmans too produced some excellent speakers, their Maxim tried to cash in on the Diamond sales, while their XB and RB series were larger. They also made drive units that were used in other products.
Lee.
Over in the UK, Wharfedale and Goodmans speakers were every bit as popular as Tannoy, sometimes more so.
Tannoy speakers were always higher priced because of their concentric drive units. In the 1980s, they produced some more budget (but still good) speakers using more conventional seperate woofers and tweeters. They also produced the weird and wondeful 600 series with their hexagonal cabinets, the higher versions of which had concentric drivers.
Wharfedale and Goodmans made some excellent speakers during this time. The tiny Diamond gave Wharfedale a useful boost in recognition with the reviews it got. They also experimented with metal tweeter domes and bayonet type driver moutings. Strangely, the E-series wasn't that well reviewed back then.
Goodmans too produced some excellent speakers, their Maxim tried to cash in on the Diamond sales, while their XB and RB series were larger. They also made drive units that were used in other products.
Lee.
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