Why I'm a Subjectivist by Teresa Goodwin
- Thread starter Art K.
- Start date
He's back. :nono:
How come all the angst in this thread?
It's just some bird's personal opinion in the OP's link *shrugs* and if her intention was to start arguments through it as some have suggested, well congratulations guys, some of you helped her succeed.
It's us lot that decide what it is to be....and what effect it has, if that makes any sense?
Well, It's 3.40am here, so maybe I'm not making any sense
Nite all, I'm off to bed in case the mob turns on me, and I end up with a pitch fork in my rear end :thmbsp:
It's just some bird's personal opinion in the OP's link *shrugs* and if her intention was to start arguments through it as some have suggested, well congratulations guys, some of you helped her succeed.
It's us lot that decide what it is to be....and what effect it has, if that makes any sense?
Well, It's 3.40am here, so maybe I'm not making any sense
Nite all, I'm off to bed in case the mob turns on me, and I end up with a pitch fork in my rear end :thmbsp:
reggaenaut
Addicted Member
How about we just stick to discussing the piece in question and not each other.
So back to it...do you actually know anyone who fits her definition of an objectivist?
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
I'd love to, Ray, but you headed this direction.
Answer to the question, yes. I've had two of them in my home.
I lived in Corvallis, Or., home of HP and a whole slew of EE's. Also home of one of the best tech's I've ever known and owner of a nice little audio shop. He and I would marvel at the number of HP EE's who fit that description (by demonstration) to a T.
I don't fit her definition of a subjectivist.
"Whereas subjectivists have a live and let live attitude and anything that makes music sound better for someone else is wonderful."
I don't think that at all. There are plenty of things to be wary of, and a certain amount of objective thought is healthy to have. If people think that nobody in the audio market is out to rip them off, well, then maybe they deserve to be ripped off. But the biggest thing I hate about being lumped into the subjective side is this idea that "anything goes'. No, anything doesn't go. And there's a lot of questionable crap out there. You guys know I work in marketing and advertising. If you think everybody in the audio business, or any business, is on the level, I think you need to raise your cynicism meter a bit more. Yet, it seems that if I think there's a legitimacy to subjective review and appreciation in this hobby (I do), then I apparently have to check my common sense and marketing experience at the door and just do some happy dance where everything, no matter how ridiculous, gets an A+. But I'm not going to do that dance, because I exist somewhere between her two lumps of imagined-humanity.
I've seen examples of both of her types on this forum and others (mostly the objective type but a few of both). I won't call them out here but they've been patently obvious about it. That doesn't mean I think most people fall into those camps.
"Whereas subjectivists have a live and let live attitude and anything that makes music sound better for someone else is wonderful."
I don't think that at all. There are plenty of things to be wary of, and a certain amount of objective thought is healthy to have. If people think that nobody in the audio market is out to rip them off, well, then maybe they deserve to be ripped off. But the biggest thing I hate about being lumped into the subjective side is this idea that "anything goes'. No, anything doesn't go. And there's a lot of questionable crap out there. You guys know I work in marketing and advertising. If you think everybody in the audio business, or any business, is on the level, I think you need to raise your cynicism meter a bit more. Yet, it seems that if I think there's a legitimacy to subjective review and appreciation in this hobby (I do), then I apparently have to check my common sense and marketing experience at the door and just do some happy dance where everything, no matter how ridiculous, gets an A+. But I'm not going to do that dance, because I exist somewhere between her two lumps of imagined-humanity.
I've seen examples of both of her types on this forum and others (mostly the objective type but a few of both). I won't call them out here but they've been patently obvious about it. That doesn't mean I think most people fall into those camps.
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
I agree with most of this post. That was my point and what I have stated all along. Her description of both sides fit the ends of the continuum. If you have seen both of her types here on this forum then you agree that her two "lumps of humanity" exist which makes them something other than imagined.
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gvalent
Well-Known Member
And in the end, God willing, we Subjectivist’s will overcome the evil tyranny wrought by the dictatorial unyielding totalitarianism of the Objectivists.
We will rid the audio world of Ojectivist's fundamentalist pseudoscience religious beliefs and put an end to their quest to destroy high-end audio and politeness.
As Subjectivists, we are the TRUE pioneers of audio and the only TRUE lovers of music.
This my friends is our Destiny!
We will rid the audio world of Ojectivist's fundamentalist pseudoscience religious beliefs and put an end to their quest to destroy high-end audio and politeness.
As Subjectivists, we are the TRUE pioneers of audio and the only TRUE lovers of music.
This my friends is our Destiny!
Scuzzer
Fixed Bias
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
And in the end, God willing, we Subjectivist’s will overcome the evil tyranny wrought by the dictatorial unyielding totalitarianism of the Objectivists.
We will rid the audio world of Ojectivist's fundamentalist pseudoscience religious beliefs and put an end to their quest to destroy high-end audio and politeness.
As Subjectivists, we are the TRUE pioneers of audio and the only TRUE lovers of music.
This my friends is our Destiny!
More like the words of the immortal Rodney King "I just want to say, you know, can we, can we all get along? Can we get along?"
VinylRob
Vinylphile
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯ `· .¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>
And now for something completely different...
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/confessions_objectivist.htm
Again I am struck by Roy Gregory's balance and insight into high-end audio over some of the more tattered fray. I really enjoyed this read and thought Mr. Gregory once again finds focus and reason.
Happy Listening!
And now for something completely different...
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/confessions_objectivist.htm
Again I am struck by Roy Gregory's balance and insight into high-end audio over some of the more tattered fray. I really enjoyed this read and thought Mr. Gregory once again finds focus and reason.
Happy Listening!
Art K.
The Voodoo You Do!
And now for something completely different...
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/blog/confessions_objectivist.htm
Again I am struck by Roy Gregory's balance and insight into high-end audio over some of the more tattered fray. I really enjoyed this read and thought Mr. Gregory once again finds focus and reason.
Happy Listening!
Perhaps this would make for a good thread.
Have at it, but I myself am beyond sick of debating subjective and objective approaches.
I won't stop you, its within the rules of the forum, but I had really hoped this forum would be for the discussion of new gear and the introduction of new ideas and some fresh gear discussion on current audio. Instead, we get a lot of the same old fighting.
I won't stop you, its within the rules of the forum, but I had really hoped this forum would be for the discussion of new gear and the introduction of new ideas and some fresh gear discussion on current audio. Instead, we get a lot of the same old fighting.
VinylRob
Vinylphile
><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯ `· .¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>
...I have no fight left in me John about these old and well worn ideas. In reading Roy Gregory's article I found a more sensible, happy, middle ground which I think is where I sit, and maybe from the sound of things, many others contently sit. This was meant to draw contrast to the original article that Art started the thread with, not to rattle sabers.
...I have no fight left in me John about these old and well worn ideas. In reading Roy Gregory's article I found a more sensible, happy, middle ground which I think is where I sit, and maybe from the sound of things, many others contently sit. This was meant to draw contrast to the original article that Art started the thread with, not to rattle sabers.
...I have no fight left in me John about these old and well worn ideas. In reading Roy Gregory's article I found a more sensible, happy, middle ground which I think is where I sit, and maybe from the sound of things, many others contently sit. This was meant to draw contrast to the original article that Art started the thread with, not to rattle sabers.
I think it's an excellent article, FWIW. But you can almost script how the whole thing will go from the start
. It's more or less where I stand as well. Somewhere in the middle, increasingly annoyed by how the arguing in this hobby overtakes our common ground...as I think there are more of us in the middle, than there are at the extremes. But its likely the extreme views are the ones that get debated, as the holders of those views are very passionate about them and bring them up.
chicks
Lunatic Member
Interesting article, but this statement is utterly wrong:
In fact, the great advantage of negative feedback, and why it is used on every properly-designed amplifier, is that it improves linearity, at the expense of gain. Hard to imagine three audio "experts" could get this wrong. :scratch2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_feedback_amplifier
In fact, the great advantage of negative feedback, and why it is used on every properly-designed amplifier, is that it improves linearity, at the expense of gain. Hard to imagine three audio "experts" could get this wrong. :scratch2:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_feedback_amplifier
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