Will a phono preamp make much difference?

Jcbluesman

Active Member
Should have been phono instead of phone. I've got a onkyo tx82 receiver into ba a100's, TT with Stanton 400.v3 with n400 stylus. I use the phono input on my onkyo. I'm having a hard time dialing in on some of my albums. Does a preamp change the characteristics of a receiver? I'm looking at pro-ject and the like in the 100 to 150 dollar range. Would this do for me or should I just go integrated? I like the idea of just keeping my onkyo and changing my soundstage if that would happen. I do know that we are listening to producers version of the albums and some producers mixes are great, to good, to mediocre, to just downright bad, and nothing can fix bad, but I'm hoping a simple preamp can help. Thanks for any info
 
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I am not familiar with phono stage in you onkyo and you don't say what your TT is but yes a phono stage can make difference. I doubt a $150 one will help and might even hurt. I don't think you will see any improvement until you get in the $500 range. If it was though me I would first spend that $150 on a new cart. For $110 you could get a Nagaoka MP-110 and probably see a lot of improvement. They do take 10-15 hours to break in though.
 
"maybe". It all depends on how decent the phono stage in the receiver is. I half suspect you'd get better results out of a cartridge or at least a stylus upgrade. The Stanton 400 is basically the Stanton 500, but equipped with a high output, heavier tracking stylus intended for DJ use. Also happens to work well on clunky record changers, but its not exactly the most delicate or refined of things. If you can come up with a better stylus for the Stanton 500 or Pickering V15, preferably an NOS one, that may do it. Also make sure the cartridge is aligned properly, the tracking weight is proper, etc.
 
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I am not familiar with phono stage in you onkyo and you don't say what your TT is but yes a phono stage can make difference. I doubt a $150 one will help and might even hurt. I don't think you will see any improvement until you get in the $500 range. If it was though me I would first spend that $150 on a new cart. For $110 you could get a Nagaoka MP-110 and probably see a lot of improvement. They do take 10-15 hours to break in though.
Thanks, been looking at cartridge upgrade. I haven't considered the mp-110 because I don't come across them in searches. I was also thinking grado black2, or ortofon 2m red. The onkyo I read Is on the warm side, I wouldn't know personally be a newbie, but I know it's not near as colored as a sansui. I'm do like my music clear and not overly produced, so a detailed on the clear side cart would suit me. Thanks, I've been kicking around my next move. Is it my TT, receiver, cartridge, stylus, speaker wire,....etc, where does it end? This is fun though. I had to come back to vinyl because I had stopped listening to all my digital media, and I was thinking my tastes had changed and was tired of music. Turns out it was the media. Digital being perfect just isn't alive. It's about as exciting as a drum machine, perfect and flat line. Thanks, cart is my next move.
 
Thanks
"maybe". It all depends on how decent the phono stage in the receiver is. I half suspect you'd get better results out of a cartridge or at least a stylus upgrade. The Stanton 400 is basically the Stanton 500, but equipped with a high output, heavier tracking stylus intended for DJ use. Also happens to work well on clunky record changers, but its not exactly the most delicate or refined of things. If you can come up with a better stylus for the Stanton 500 or Pickering V15, preferably an NOS one, that may do it. Also make sure the cartridge is aligned properly, the tracking weight is proper, etc.
Thanks I'm doing my cart next. I have a sansui fr-d3. Picked up on the cheap, 40 buck and in good condition, good for a newbie starter. It does have a plastic no name headshell I need to upgrade, I'm sure headshell have a lot to do with resonance, if the arm is so important the headshell has to be also, so I'll get it at the same time, along with a alignment protractor. Next, I want to explore speaker wire upgrade, but not up there 400 bucks stuff. Thanks you guys, you just simplified my day
 
C

Thanks, been looking at cartridge upgrade. I haven't considered the mp-110 because I don't come across them in searches. I was also thinking grado black2, or ortofon 2m red. The onkyo I read Is on the warm side, I wouldn't know personally be a newbie, but I know it's not near as colored as a sansui. I'm do like my music clear and not overly produced, so a detailed on the clear side cart would suit me. Thanks, I've been kicking around my next move. Is it my TT, receiver, cartridge, stylus, speaker wire,....etc, where does it end? This is fun though. I had to come back to vinyl because I had stopped listening to all my digital media, and I was thinking my tastes had changed and was tired of music. Turns out it was the media. Digital being perfect just isn't alive. It's about as exciting as a drum machine, perfect and flat line. Thanks, cart is my next move.
Digital is perfect? That's a whole different area for discussion, usually ending in
a stalemate or yet another locked thread. :whip:
 
You might want to check out this thread on an inexpensive cartridge:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/in...k-ii-champagne-sound-on-a-beer-budget.842628/
Yeah, I looked at the 3600 too, but in a comparison YT video, I could hear the difference between it and the carbon, I think it was. I'm buying some pretty decent albums now and am wanting to spend a 150 bucks or so on a nicer headshell set. I will say this Stanton 400 cart works well for 50s and 60s orchestrated, folk, easy listening recordings. Frank, Dean, Nat, Sammy sounds good. It has a big sound, not refined, but gives life to well produced easy listening jazz type stuff. When the 400.v3 was developed, I don't think they were were scratching at that time. I read they were popular at radio stations, being conical and having a big sound back in the day. This is a worthwhile media and I'll drop the dime on it, just not a big dime, like three or four hundred bucks. I'm just not at that point. Thanks
 
With the volume of all things connected with playing LP's very small now days prices have increased tremendously from the 70's. Finding a Stanton cartridge that can compare to a 681EEE or a 881s or 981 Hzl just isn't possible now days. So unless you put out more money for a cartridge, I wouldn't even consider buying a separate pre-amp. The money you spend should be put toward a better cartridge. Cartridges today can and are so much better than in the past but you have to pay for them. Cartridges that use to cost under 140 dollars and were top of the line can easily approach or surpass $1000.00 to day. Todays cartridges not only sound better but they track better with their more sophisticated stylus shapes. Ortofon, Denon, Clear Audio, Dynavector , all make models that you might consider auditioning for less than $500.oo that will really improve the sound. Finding a dealer that will allow you to audition them is going to be the challenge. Good luck!
 
With the volume of all things connected with playing LP's very small now days prices have increased tremendously from the 70's. Finding a Stanton cartridge that can compare to a 681EEE or a 881s or 981 Hzl just isn't possible now days. So unless you put out more money for a cartridge, I wouldn't even consider buying a separate pre-amp. The money you spend should be put toward a better cartridge. Cartridges today can and are so much better than in the past but you have to pay for them. Cartridges that use to cost under 140 dollars and were top of the line can easily approach or surpass $1000.00 to day. Todays cartridges not only sound better but they track better with their more sophisticated stylus shapes. Ortofon, Denon, Clear Audio, Dynavector , all make models that you might consider auditioning for less than $500.oo that will really improve the sound. Finding a dealer that will allow you to audition them is going to be the challenge. Good luck!
Yeah, I searched eBay for Stanton but no go. I can't swing 500 bucks and where I'm at in this audiophile venture, really just enjoying listening to vinyl again, I'm not ready to drop that much. Right now with the setup I have and the albums I've accumulated I'd feel comfortable spending 150 bucks or less. If I grow in this I'll of course feel more comfortable spending on equipment. Just a couple of weeks ago if someone said spend at least 100 bucks on speaker wire, I would have responded, no way, it only wire. Now I know that a hundred bucks on speaker wire is cheap. I'm looking at the carbon and the 2m red....etc. that 3600l doesn't sound too bad after all listening to the carbon comparison. 18 bucks AND free shipping, ☺️
 
I have to agree with your decision about speaker wire. I like monster cable because its easy to handle and lies flat. If I were on a budget I would try to get to know a commercial electrician. some times you can pick up 12 awg Romex real cheap. Its a pain to deal with but its copper. Stay away from the recycled aluminum stuff.
 
I have to agree with your decision about speaker wire. I like monster cable because its easy to handle and lies flat. If I were on a budget I would try to get to know a commercial electrician. some times you can pick up 12 awg Romex real cheap. Its a pain to deal with but its copper. Stay away from the recycled aluminum stuff.
Yeah, I'll stay away from the Romex and go with monster or something in the price range of 80 bucks for thirty feet. May go used on eBay. Man, I just set the weight on my arm and it's much more musical and smoother. The Stanton 400.v3 calls for between 3 and 7 grams. I read somewhere to adjust vf by listening instead of suggestions. I had it set at 3gms because my anti only goes up to 3. After all the trials I ended up at 6gms. WOW, I have a new TT. It just sounds like the music fits together better, probably the way the producer intended it to. The guys who design this stuff has it down to a science. Man I love all these variables. Yeah, can't be pointing fingers at studios until everything is set up correctly ;)
 
... I've been kicking around my next move. Is it my TT, receiver, cartridge, stylus, speaker wire,....etc, where does it end?
If you're not careful, it never does end :(
The more pragmatic music lovers call a halt at some point before upgraditis destroys their life and/or bank balance. ;)
 
If you're not careful, it never does end :(
The more pragmatic music lovers call a halt at some point before upgraditis destroys their life and/or bank balance. ;)
Thanks, but I'm not a collector so I will walk by anything I don't want or need. Right now I'm good where I'm at, and I've learned a lot reading here from other sound seekers. If I spend 10 bucks it had better be for a reason, and a good reason. When I started this venture, I went to Best buy and looked at their 300.00 Sony's and LG's and thought, I can't do this, I can do better old school floor speakers and a receiver. I wasn't even close to thinking about vinyl or speaker types and their characteristics, nor receiver characteristics from one manufacturer to another, didn't even know all of this existed. To make a long story short, I kicked Best buy's butt for a 160 bucks, and got back into vinyl because it got to the point that I couldn't even listen to my CDs anymore, just lost all that feeling for them, too flat and perfect. I know if I make a move it's going to be 4 or 5 steps, not the very next thing in line, unless it just falls in my lap for cheap or free. I just ordered my 80 dollar goldwing elan and that will be perfect for me and my starter setup. And after learning from audiokarma, it seems to me my next good move would have to be speakers, along with speaker cable. What's the use of having the great speakers and have them hooked up with $20 speaker wire. Thanks aker, much appreciated and well noted
 
Jcbm: Just had a look at the schematic of your TX-82 - and as expected for a model of that class and age, I found a Lipshitz-like phono section based on a JRC/NJR NJM4559 opamp, which should be ok. The 120-V-version appears to have a pretty low input capacitance, though, which on one hand isn't bad (because some MM and MI cart models require that for optimal performance - while for those, that don't, you could always add more externally (e.g. via Y-adaptors plus loading plugs)), but on the other might be not quite ideal for your Stanton cart. As one can't really expect very much from a 400 anyway, however, I'd suggest you to consider a more refined model (or respectively a model with more refined needle) with good price-performance like for example the new Audio Technica VM95ML.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
No.
Get a "new" cart first.
All in all, digital will always sound cleaner and better (to me) anyhow, unless you just love the whole experience in itself (like I do). Crackles and pops, surface noise, limited frequency response and dynamics just ruins a nice recording for me. Some recordings however are simple best enjoyed on LP. It is what it is!

Download some "needle drop" recording from some high end system and compare to an LP you have at the house. I bet the "difference" of 500 bucks will be around 3%...
ymmv - as your 3% might be "worth" 50% to you.
 
Jcbm: Just had a look at the schematic of your TX-82 - and as expected for a model of that class and age, I found a Lipshitz-like phono section based on a JRC/NJR NJM4559 opamp, which should be ok. The 120-V-version appears to have a pretty low input capacitance, though, which on one hand isn't bad (because some MM and MI cart models require that for optimal performance - while for those, that don't, you could always add more externally (e.g. via Y-adaptors plus loading plugs)), but on the other might be not quite ideal for your Stanton cart. As one can't really expect very much from a 400 anyway, however, I'd suggest you to consider a more refined model (or respectively a model with more refined needle) with good price-performance like for example the new Audio Technica VM95ML.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Unfortunately I just ordered a goldwing elan before I came to my conclusion. I'm going to get reference speakers and limit my listening time. I'll definitely spend the money necessary for another cart if need be. One thing the Stanton is is bold, full, and loud and unrefined. So between amp, speakers, and cartridge, something I hadn't thought of, I can do somethings to rectify this. Thanks
 
Jcbm: Just had a look at the schematic of your TX-82 - and as expected for a model of that class and age, I found a Lipshitz-like phono section based on a JRC/NJR NJM4559 opamp, which should be ok. The 120-V-version appears to have a pretty low input capacitance, though, which on one hand isn't bad (because some MM and MI cart models require that for optimal performance - while for those, that don't, you could always add more externally (e.g. via Y-adaptors plus loading plugs)), but on the other might be not quite ideal for your Stanton cart. As one can't really expect very much from a 400 anyway, however, I'd suggest you to consider a more refined model (or respectively a model with more refined needle) with good price-performance like for example the new Audio Technica VM95ML.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
Thanks, just ordered a goldwing elan with half the out put of my 400 .v3 Stanton. Probably warmer than I need though, but some reference speakers should help a lot. I've been pushing the listening hours here lately, got to cut back. Thanks Munich!
 
Unfortunately I just ordered a goldwing elan before I came to my conclusion. I'm going to get reference speakers and limit my listening time. I'll definitely spend the money necessary for another cart if need be. One thing the Stanton is is bold, full, and loud and unrefined. So between amp, speakers, and cartridge, something I hadn't thought of, I can do somethings to rectify this. Thanks
VTF isn't the only parameter that affects SQ. I have to ask, do you have a cartridge alignment protractor? A few basic tools really make this part of the hobby more fun, and they cost pocket change. As a matter of fact I just purchased an AT95E cartridge, digital stylus pressure scale, and alignment protractor for my brother's bday, having them direct shipped to his house.

The scale and protractor total around $15, I wouldn't feel comfortable running my stylus without knowing it was properly set up.

Pictures of the items.

Screenshot_20190312-084426.png
Screenshot_20190312-084458.png
Screenshot_20190312-084521.png
Not an outstanding cartridge until taking the price into consideration, but it is elliptical and has a great reputation for sounding way better than it has any right to. Definitely a lot gentler on your vinyl than a cartridge running at 6g lol.
 
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