Will any FM antenna work for this distance?

Discussion in 'Tuners' started by brian222, Aug 18, 2017.

  1. brian222

    brian222 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,379
    Location:
    Redford Township, Mi
    Future move may be coming. Detroit up to Gladwin area. 164 miles. I have several stations I'd like to keep. Will some work? None? If some, what type/size antenna will I need? Thanks.
     
  2. KentTeffeteller

    KentTeffeteller Gimpus Stereophilus!

    Messages:
    24,165
    Location:
    Athens, TN
    I have doubts you'll get anything but a few Detroit blowtorches that far out reliably. And you'll also need one of the best sensitive and selective tuners ever made in good alignment, on the order of a McIntosh MR 78 and a deep fringe Yagi on a rotor for any hope of some reception. FM is very line of sight, and also on flatter terrain with nothing blocking your path, your odds increase. 164 miles is very far out.
     
    musichal likes this.
  3. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

    Messages:
    33,563
    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Lots of height, lots of gain, and lots of luck *might* get you there.

    You may be stuck with online streaming though, which unfortunately tends to sound fairly awful most of the time.
     
    KentTeffeteller likes this.
  4. KiM3Ce

    KiM3Ce AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,138
    Location:
    Arizona
    Wow, that is out in the country! You might find some college stations or others. If you can do a mast and rotor, it would probably be worthwhile. Good luck! dish.jpg
     
  5. I LIKE MUSIC

    I LIKE MUSIC Super Member

    upload_2017-8-18_14-39-6.png

    This is the coverage area of one of the stations. It is about 200 kW ERP although the antenna is not real high its coverage is somewhat representative.

    If my red dot is somewhat close to your location, you are way out of even the fringe signal level.

    A lot of antenna, way up in the air along with a quality, low noise (noise figure of 1 dB or less) RF preamp at the antenna with low loss feed line and even with this it will be very difficult if not impossible.

    Can you receive any of your stations of interest on your car radio if you drive to the top of a high hill, in the open, near your location?

    Radio-Locator
    can give you a list of stations that stream their audio (stations with the lightning bolt, click on the lightning bolt) such as it may be quality wise and their coverage area.
     
    Hyperion likes this.
  6. ConradH

    ConradH AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,250
    Location:
    Canandaigua, NY
    Haven't looked at the stations, but you might find closer stations trash what you're trying to receive.
     
  7. I LIKE MUSIC

    I LIKE MUSIC Super Member

    I am listening Kenny Wayne Shepherd on WHFR (blues station) streaming at 192K. It sounds okay on my computer set up. Better than weak signal FM for what it is worth.
     
  8. dewdude

    dewdude I fix stuff.

    Messages:
    3,106
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    Very unlikely. The fresnel zone for 100mhz from the tower's location and antenna height just doesn't seem to match up. The tower in Detroit would have to be 3000 ft taller, or you'd need a 3500ft tall tower at your location.

    This may not be accounting for diffraction, but that's not very strong at 100mhz.
     
  9. brian222

    brian222 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,379
    Location:
    Redford Township, Mi
    Had my doubts but thought I'd ask. Thanks for all the input.
     
  10. loopstick

    loopstick AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,693
    Location:
    Shit 'n' Piss, Texas
    FM Fool only lets me build a 500 ft tower and that gets you only 90 miles.
     
  11. Nick_G

    Nick_G Active Member

    Messages:
    474
    Location:
    Whitchurch, Hampshire, UK
    You won't know until you try. I receive a 100 kW transmitter in France SW of Caen here on demand which is a similar distance (about 159 miles). The signal often has deep fades and/or flutter due to the constantly changing refractive index of the atmosphere and reflections from aircraft. It often peaks up in stereo with RDS though and in warm settled weather it can be a decent signal. My tuners are hooked up to a 9-element beam on a rotator.

    Streaming may be the best option. WDET offers a 256 kb/s AAC stream which sounds very good through my hi-fi system.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2017
    Hyperion likes this.
  12. Sandy G

    Sandy G Spiteful Old Cuss Moderator Subscriber

    Messages:
    48,745
    Location:
    Rogersville, Tennessee
    Yeah, that's REALLY "Pushin' the Envelope"... You likely Will be able to pull 'er in, a few times, but prolly NOT regularly enuf to keep you happy...Down here,t here a 2 rather limited times when the FM "Skip" rolls in-Oncet in the spring, W/the changing of seasons,& a corresponding similar time in the fall. "FM DXing" is pretty much a black art, sometimes it works as its sposed to, but more often it seems to work at almost "Bassacwards" rules...
     
  13. amptramp

    amptramp Active Member

    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Mississauga Ontario Canada
    There are people who have used helium balloons to pull up a long wire antenna to impressive heights, but that is about the only thing that will work unless you have consistent winds and can use a kite.
     
  14. vwestlife

    vwestlife Active Member

    Messages:
    435
    If this was low-band VHF TV we were talking about, it might be possible, but 88-108 MHz FM just doesn't have that kind of line of sight coverage in normal circumstances. But especially during summer evenings when there's tropospheric ducting ("tropo"), which often brings in stations 100-200 miles away, you might get lucky and hear some Detroit stations from that distance.
     
    KentTeffeteller likes this.
  15. dewdude

    dewdude I fix stuff.

    Messages:
    3,106
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    And the crazy part is you can only go up to 200 before you need FAA study and approval as well as registration.

    Then again that may be a tool for designing a transmitter site.

    Does that take in to account diffraction or anything else?
     
  16. loopstick

    loopstick AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,693
    Location:
    Shit 'n' Piss, Texas
    It certainly does - it has terrain models and FCC data. There's a nerd section that explains the process.
     

Share This Page