Winsome Mouse Amp review thread

Well son of a gun--a small box coming my way today :banana: I'm sure that my review won't be nearly as sophisticated or entertaining as some (jumping cats!!), but I'll throw some challenges and cheese at it! MEOW

Thanks Bill
 
Mouse Mods?

Anyone try or aware of anyone doing a cap mod on this lil beaut?

Seems that high end brightness mentioned in a number of the reviews may be taken care of in this mannner.

Doak
 
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"All In A Mouse’s Night"

I took a somewhat different approach from some of the other reviewers. I decided to use only one set of speakers, one source (my venerable Yamaha CDP) and the diminutive Mouse with its companion (and heavier!) 30V Power Supply. The equipment specifics included (NO separate pre-amp):

Yamaha NS-20T (Consumer version of the NS-20 Monitor)
Yamaha CDX-900U (My venerable CDP—the drawer is slowly failing--hence the popped-top)

I also, for comparison, switched between the Mouse and a McIntosh MAC 4100 with all controls set to “flat” (including the variable loudness). The NS-20T speakers are fairly small speakers with 8 inch cloth surround woofers and 1 inch dome (not Be) tweeters. I purchased these speakers about a year ago from Merrylander and I am frequently surprised at the fullness of range and clarity that these speakers possess. I also listened to recordings that I am quite familiar with, so I think that most of my impressions are fairly objective. With some of my favorite recordings I did perform side-by-side comparisons to confirm my gut reactions when listening to the Mouse.

My initial impressions of the Mouse were that it’s quite strong and capable; quick to react; able to handle dense program material (with clarity), yet a bit shallow in the lower-end, and at times it seemed a bit “boxy” in the low mid-range (lacking some of what I call “presence” or depth). But for sure, this little amp can really fill the speakers with clean and powerful output. In my listening room (about 12 by 16 feet), I found that with most recordings the volume control could go no higher than about 11 o’clock. I found this amp better suited for recordings with acoustic instruments, the human voice and percussion. For some strange reason, snare drums in most recordings seemed to present themselves quite forward in the output. This amp might work quite well with a powered subwoofer. Also, I could see this amp used even for applications such as large pleasure boats (not that I have a large boat, at all!). I'm sure that adding a pre-amp with tone controls would likely improve the low-end response. My listening included:

Genesis – Wind and Wuthering
-All In A Mouse’s Night (How could I NOT start with this?!)
“Then comes this monster mouse
It’s ten feet tall
With teeth and claws to match
It only took one blow!”

This is a VERY dense recording—full range. The amp handled the dynamic changes quite capably, but the closing with Moog Bass pedals was a bit thin.

Steve Hackett – To Watch The Storms
-Circus of Becoming – This is a curious piece with an Optigan, groaning guitar and a bridge with a simulated church organ and pedals. This was reproduced quite well.
-The Moon Under Water – Very well reproduced, but just a wee-bit thin in timbre; this is a classical/nylon guitar piece. Good, solid and clear output...this was one of the pieces where I really increased the volume control to about 2 o'clock trying to get the peak light to spike, but no go--the amp remained VERY solid.
-Serpentine Song – One of my favorite pieces ever by Steve Hackett. Quite a few vocals (harmonies), keyboards, a stunning flute solo by John Hackett and one of Rob Townsend’s best ever soprano sax solos (NOT! Like Kenny G)—as beautiful as a Mel Collins solo on a Clannad piece entitled “Soul Searcher”. The little Mouse handled this piece almost flawlessly.

Maire Brennan (of Clannad fame) – Whisper To The Wild Water
-From Where I Stand – A very full, lush vocal piece with light acoustic guitar interlaced with a synthesizer bass line. The Mouse reproduced this quite well, but it was a bit thin in the bass line.

Michael Franks – Rendezvous In Rio
-Chemistry Of Love – This is a Jeff Lorber produced piece—slow, jazzy, great dynamic range. The Mouse performed quite well, but was a bit weak in the bass line…I could hear it roll-off in some passages (and it wasn’t the speakers). I compared this with the MAC4100, and the bottom-end was fully restored.

Michael Franks – Dragonfly Summer
-Soulmate – Another Lorber produced piece—same results as above.
-You Were Meant For Me – The Mouse reproduced this haunting acoustic duet (with Franks and Peggy Lee—one of her last recordings) quite well. I love this piece--nylon guitar, acoustic bass, drums--alto sax solo.

Nick Magnus – Inhaling Green
-Inhaling Green - Part Two – Stripping The Flesh – an exceprt from a 16 minute piece from my friend Nick. At this point in the piece it moves into a rather droning “house” rhythm with an ethereal vocal. It reminds me a great deal of the sequence from the movie “Contact” (with Jodie Foster) where she is time-travelling. This recording has a HUGE dynamic range (very little compression)—and the Mouse held its own quite well. Again, only weakness was a bit in the low end.

Kraftwerk – Tour De France – Soundtracks
-Aero Dynamik—a real pulsing gem of a piece. Unfortunately, the low-end just about completely dropped out.

Scritti Pollitti – White Bread Black Beer
All of these pieces on this CD are VERY hot recordings with an enormous frequency and dynamic range. I was quite surprised that most everything was very well reproduced (except the REALLY low synth-bass lines).
-Boom Boom Bap
-Throw
-After Six
-Petrococadollar

Peter Gabriel – Up
-Growing Up – Unfortunately once this piece really got rolling most of the bass line was lost (but the MAC 4100 brought it back).

George Strait – It Just Comes Natural
-Give It Away – An excellent tune! Most of the tune and depth was VERY well reproduced. A bit of the bass line was lost, but it didn’t really affect my enjoyment of this great song!

Gordon Lightfoot – Salute
I love this album—beautifully recorded, clear and one of Gordon Lightfoot’s best of his later career. These pieces are three of my favorites. All three were quite accurately reproduced, except a bit of the woodiness (timbre and depth) of the acoustic guitar in Tattoo seemed to be lost in the output. I compared it to the MAC4100 to confirm, and back that depth came.
-Knotty Pine
-Biscuit City
-Tattoo

I found that there are many similarities between how this amp sounds compared to some small EL84 tube amps that I have heard over the years (very clear in the highs and mid, but somewhat weak in the low-end and depth). A couple of other observations: 1) There was a noticeable upper-range “pop” in the speakers at power-up. & 2) The amp was a bit noisy (hiss, but no hum) in the background when there was no source present.

Thanks very much for the opportunity to review this VERY cool little amp. Throughout my entire listening (most of this afternoon), it never skipped a beat and barely heated-up. Never once did any warning lights activate. Off to its next destination!!
 
Great review! I appreciate the detail with respect to specific recordings, especially.
 
Ah, the Mouse amp – hard to know how to follow up the excellent reviews already posted, but let me give it a shot. Like some others, my first impression is “this thing is tiny” – you can look at the pics, but until you see it sitting there next to your other stuff, it is hard to appreciate how small it really is. It gives the impression of very solid build quality, but, man, is it small! Anyway, here's my review:

I tried the amp in 3 systems, using a variety of music. In each system, I listened to parts of at least 6 or 7 discs. In every case, I used selections from Eryka Badu – Baduizm; Keb’ Mo’, and Shirley Horn - You Won’t Forget Me, as well as the first movement of Nielsen’s Symphony No. 4 (San Francisco Symphony conducted by Blomstedt), as well as other stuff. This gave me a range of electric and acoustic music, ranging from quite simple to quite complex. My wife listened with me some of the time, so the comments below partly reflect her impressions.

We started with our main system (see http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124793), where the Mouse amp replaced a pair of Bel Canto M300’s. At first, the sound seemed a little thin and constricted, but after 10 or 15 minutes, it really opened up. Detail was very nearly as good as the Bel Cantos, as was soundstage depth. Bass was deep and tight, though not as much so as with the Bel Cantos. Overall, the sound was very good, but I had the consistent impression that the soundstage was smaller and some instruments (e.g. soprano sax) a little thinner-sounding than the with the Bel Cantos. I had the impression that the Mouse amp was not quite up to the task of driving the Newform speakers, an impression I’ve also had with some other relatively low-powered amps. Still, a good performance in absolute terms, and especially so considering the size and price.

Next, I moved the Mouse amp to our “downstairs” system (which doubles as our home theater system). Here, I connected the amp in a very simple setup – Redgum CD5 CD player, Mouse amp, Audio Concepts Sapphire IIILe. The usual amp in this system is a Dynakit ST-35. Some of you heard these speakers at AK Fest 2007, and they match up well with the excellent Redgum player. In this setup, the Mouse amp really sounded good – Shirley Horn’s voice with a small group behind her sounded great, with really excellent delicacy on vocal textures and cymbals. Acoustic bass also sounded great, and I noticed no shrinking of the soundstage relative to the Dynakit amp. In direct comparison, there was a clear difference in character between the two amps, with the Mouse amp sounding very precise and transparent, in contrast to the Dynakit’s warmer but less obviously detailed sound. The Mouse amp also did fine when briefly used to drive these speakers as the main L/R in the HT setup (using a Rotel 1066 processor).

Finally, I set up the amp in my office system, using a Theta Miles CD player as a source, driving Ohm Microwalsh Talls (which sound much better in this room than they did in the Fest hotel room, for those who heard them there). The usual amp in this setup is a Forte 4A, a very nice 50 W/channel Class A amp. In this setup, the Mouse amp excelled – it was clearly better than the Forte in terms of detail, clarity, soundstage depth, and nearly the Forte’s equal in bass. Classical music especially showed the great performance of the Mouse amp with these speakers – the fading of notes into the acoustic of the performance space, the clarity of individual lines in complex orchestral parts.

So, a bottom line – I wouldn’t pick this amp to drive big speakers in a big space (but who would?). And its performance does seem to be somewhat speaker dependent. But I really liked it, and noticed its limitations only in the “big system.” It emphasizes precision and detail over warmth, in comparison to the Dynakit or Forte amps, and that will conflict with some people’s preferences (and maybe with mine, on particular music). But in general I value precision, detail, and transparency, and I was very impressed with the Mouse amp in these regards, especially for the size and price. A very cool little amp. Looking at this thread, I guess I’m above the average in terms of enthusiasm, but then that’s why it’s interesting to read multiple opinions.
 
Just want to let everyone know the Mouse arrived last night and I started to listen to it today. So far so good. I will listen to it as much as possible over the next few days and post a full review, or should I say opinion, of this little critter before it heads back across the country to Texas.

Paul
 
OK. Here goes.

WINSOME amp review

Let me start by saying that I only tested the Mouse in my main system due to the fact that I wanted to be as fair to the Mouse as possible. My second system has not gotten a lot of use lately so I felt I could be more accurate in my evaluation if I stuck with my main system only. I chose recordings that I am quite familiar with and/or have listened to recently and/or frequently.

Components used for testing:

- Carver C-1 preamp
- Pioneer Elite DV-47A DVD/SACD player with 24 bit/192kHz internal DAC
- Pioneer HPM-100 speakers recapped this past summer and set 14" off the floor

1. Eva Cassidy "Live At Blues Alley" CD - Pop

- Excellent sound stage
- Excellent clarity and detail
- A couple of instances during the listening tests the acoustic guitar had a slight piercing to it similar to the effect I was getting before I recapped the HPM-100's.

2. Diana Krall "Christmas Songs" CD - Jazz

- Excellent soundstage again
- Excellent clarity and detail
- Again a slight piercing when her voice would hit certain notes

3. Diana Krall "Live In Paris" CD - Jazz

- Excellent soundstage
- Excellent clarity and detail
- Flute at the beginning of "I've Got You Under My Skin" sounded fabulous. It really stood out for me. It sounded very natural imo.
- Piano solo at approximately 4 minutes into the same song had a slight piercing to it at times.

4. Bela Fleck and The Flecktones "Flight Of The Cosmic Hippo" CD - Jazz

- I like this cd for the bass punch.
- The Mouse did very well imo on the drums that this cd contains. It can be extremely demanding at high volume levels although I never pushed the Mouse as to have the PEAK Indicator light up. I did have it playing louder than I would normally listen and it held its own just fine except where the bass hit the lower octaves for an extended period of time. It seemed to just loose it and get loose and flabby sounding. Kick drums and fast drum hits sounded really good though.

5. Diana Krall "Live In Paris" DVD - Jazz

- Other than the Bass sounding tubby in the song "S' Wonderful" I could not have asked for my system to sound better with the components used.
- Every nuance of the music was clear and distinct. All instruments had their place in space. A big thumbs up for the Mouse on this recording.

6. Walter Trout and The Free Radicals “Live Trout” CD - Blues

- This has received a lot of play lately so it was only natural that I listen to it for my evaluation.
- This recording was somewhat difficult to listen to at first. After the first few songs my ears became accustomed to it. Walter’s guitar is very forward and a little harsh to my ears on this amp. A little eq’ing in the midrange area would be necessary to tame it.

7. Phutureprimitive “Sub Conscious” CD - Electronic

- I hate to say it but I was disappointed on this recording. For those unfamiliar with Phutureprimitive, they do electronic music. This recording has lots of deep bass and the Mouse just sounded like it did not have good control of the lower bass region. My son also commented that the bass sounded loose and flabby. The Emotiva amp has much better control and kick on music with bass in the lower octaves.

8. Steely Dan “Gaucho” CD - Rock

- This recording sounded very good. The music and vocals filled the room with ease.
- The saxophone was very satisfying and background vocals were never shaded by the music.

9. Loreena Mckennitt “The Mask And Mirror” CD – Celtic/World

- Loreena sounded fantastic. This was one of those recordings that sounded excellent on the Mouse. No reason to make any adjustments at all.
- The wind instruments sounded realistic.
- The recording just drew me in.

Conclusion:


This is a very nice little amplifier. I was totally surprised at how well it represents the music. I can't emphasize enough how open the soundstage is. Definitely the strong point of this amp imo.

It seems to be just slightly forward in the upper mid frequency. This characteristic may contribute to the occasional "piercing" I noticed during certain notes of acoustic guitar, electric guitar and certain piano keys.

In all fairness to the Mouse, the HPM-100’s are known for their forward sound so the “piercing” I mention is more than likely a combination of both the Mouse and the HPM’s. This “piercing is not nearly as obvious with my Emotiva amp.

The bass seemed loose and lacking of control on music with extended lower octave bass. I noted this on the Bela Fleck and Phutureprimitive recordings. My son also stated this fact to me. I really wasn’t too surprised about this because the power supply is small and I would not expect it to have the reserves to go way low in bass frequencies with ease. Again, the Emotiva reached way down without any issue when compared to the Mouse.

I did listen to other recordings such as Patricia Barber “Café Blue”, Godsmack “The Other Side” etc. but basically came up with the same results so I didn’t feel it necessary to list them for the sake of dragging this review out any longer than it already is.

With a more laid back set of speakers I believe the Mouse would be a superb choice for someone with limited space and a demand for HI-FI sound, so long as you’re not into loud rap or music that reaches way down low into the frequency spectrum.

One other note: After hooking the Emotiva amp back up I did notice that the bass was definitely better, meaning more pronounced, at lower "night time" listening levels.

Hopefully I didn't miss anything. The Mouse will be making the trip back across the country on Wednesday.

Thanks for letting me try this guy out. It was fun.

Paul
 
I just got one in the mail today. I went with the Panasonic knob because I thought I was going to keep it wide open. Turns out it was so loud I could only turn up my VTL preamp to about 1/4 and it would drown out my sub, so I backed it off a little bit.

So far I am pretty impressed. It does seem a little harsh on the high end, but I am hoping a tube change will help that.

Someone modified my VTL before I bought it so it now has 6922s in place of the 12ax7s that were stock. I have EH 6922s in there now and have some Amperex Philips on the way.

I was using a stock SI t-amp in a wood case that I built prior and as of yesterday was using a modified SMPS on it, which helped the SI immensely.

My speakers are Jordan JX92s bookshelfs that I made. They are sealed and do not reproduce anything under 100hz. I have an Onix X-sub on the second set of outputs to fill them in.

Source is an Onix CD-5 or Rhapsody off PC.

The biggest thing I noticed was the sheer size of the soundstage.

With the SI T-amp I could fill the width of my room (13.5') with the Jordans about 8' apart.

With the Mouse on Madonna's Like a Prayer from the Immaculate collection (I know, but really, check it out) I can hear the choir and percussion as it is in my kitchen, which would be a good 8' from the side of the speaker.

Pretty cool.

Here is a couple pics:
 

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I now have one in my possession, it's bitter cold so I will let it acclimate and hook it up tomorrow. Lots of great reviews, so I'm looking forward to it.
 
Well, not to predate Strawman's review, but I was able to get the Mouse yesterday when I stopped by Grumpys. It seems Steve had just dropped it off and I wound up being in the right place at the right time.

I'll give it a test this week in my 3 systems (La Scalas, EPI 500s, and Boston Acoustics A-100s) and maybe hook it up to some Advent 5012s if I get ambitious enough to refoam them.
 
Hi guys,

Would need some general opinion on Winsome mouse as I never experience any T-Amp before.

Comparing Winsome Mouse to a well built Class A/B amplifier such as Marantz PM7001KI (any unit below USD 1000), which one would you prefer or can you list out advantages/disadvantages comparing Winsome mouse to good Class A/B amp below USD 1k?
 
Hi Pierreye and welcome to AK. I think if you'll carefully read the reviews we've made on the Mouse, you'll get a feel for its strengths and minor weaknesses.
 
My quick analogy -

A/B amp = baseball bat, crayon, muscle car

Mouse = Samurai sword, ballpoint pen, crotch rocket
 
Hi Pierreye and welcome to AK. I think if you'll carefully read the reviews we've made on the Mouse, you'll get a feel for its strengths and minor weaknesses.

Thanks for the reply. I have read countless review but I would say nothing beat the actual audition. As previously T-Amp is sub USD100 so that wouldn't be much to spend but moving forward good T-Amp had start to move into around USD 300 to USD 2000 region so I really wonder how much better compare to other Class A or Class AB amp (solid state only comparison). Is it really a giant killer claim by some reviewer? :scratch2:
 
I don't know that I'd call the Winsome amp a giant killer, exactly, in part because of its limited power and single input. Having heard it, though (my review is earlier in this thread), I will say that it sounded much closer to my Bel Canto M300 amps than to the Panasonic XR-55 that has had so much buzz on the internet. All of these, though, are great values in my opinion.
 
I don't know that I'd call the Winsome amp a giant killer, exactly, in part because of its limited power and single input. Having heard it, though (my review is earlier in this thread), I will say that it sounded much closer to my Bel Canto M300 amps than to the Panasonic XR-55 that has had so much buzz on the internet. All of these, though, are great values in my opinion.


Single input is not a concern for me as I only connect to one source for my dedicated listening equipment. I'm more concerned on the sound quality compare to other amps below USD2000. My speaker sensitivity is around 85db and I don't listen to very loud music (less than 90db). Might give Mouse a tryout since Jay offer a 30 days money back gurantee.
 
Bought one for myself.

Long after hearing the demo sample of the Mouse Amp, I recently bought one for myself. I am using it with the little Role Audio Sampan FTL speakers, and it is sounding great - the Mouse Amp's slightly lean sound is a nice compliment for these speakers, at least in my room. Together with the half-size Marantz CD-110, this makes for a great compact system. :thmbsp:
 
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