WOW!! Is it April...McIntosh MTI 100

[PanheadXR290]

I'd also love to know where he got that "statistic."

Where did I get my statistics from ? Its no secret I'm friends with a McIntosh dealer ,I got my statistics from him and I have no reason not to believe him .

The questions I asked of those who strongly dislike this McIntosh Turntable have yet to be answered .

 

[PanheadXR290]

Actually a McIntosh Autoformer amplifier will "double down" when the next higher impedance taps are used than the speaker's impedance. (Keeping in mind almost no amplifier truly doubles output at half impedance. Those claiming that ability are probably playing around with their ratings numbers ie, underrating output at 8 ohm so that double output at 4 ohm can be claimed ).

What your describing is an ancillary & negative after effect from using the amplifier improperly and will ,in all cases ,when driven hard , activate the soft clip circuitry,or send the amp into protection mode more frequently than if the speakers were connected to the proper ohm tap,you'll see this easily with speakers that go below 4 ohms .

The whole ohms law of doubeling wattages wasn't my concern or point ,my point is that it would be nice for Mac to design a high power amp without the restrictions that come with Autoformers ,which would make that amp a better match for speakers with low impedance speaker systems ,something Mac amps are not suited well for .

 

[62caddy]

What your describing is an ancillary & negative after effect from using the amplifier improperly and will ,in all cases ,when driven hard , activate the soft clip circuitry,or send the amp into protection mode more frequently than if the speakers were connected to the proper ohm tap,you'll see this easily with speakers that go below 4 ohms .

The whole ohms law of doubeling wattages wasn't my concern or point ,my point is that it would be nice for Mac to design a high power amp without the restrictions that come with Autoformers ,which would make that amp a better match for speakers with low impedance speaker systems ,something Mac amps are not suited well for .

I wouldn't question that type of use would trigger the heat protection circuits when driven hard over prolonged durations. But no damage would result. In an equipment report of the MC2255 I believe S/R mentioning having done everything in its power to get the amplifier to self-destruct - even going as far as shorting the outputs while applying instant full power bursts(!) - all of which the amplifier survived with aplomb. Few amplifiers could ever withstand that kind of abuse back in 1982, if any and probably not that many more today.

Admittedly, the closest taps should be used for the maximum amount of power with the least amount of distortion and maximum life of the unit. And anyone concerned about and extra few decibels worth of power at lower impedances, they would be better off simply buying a more powerful amplifier to begin with. Personally, product durability and longevity ranks higher in importance than the "doubling down" factor - which a Mc A/F amplifier will still do anyway with the full assurance that PG will prevent excessive distortion/clipping regardless of which taps are used.

In my book, the objections to A/F in a Mac are non-issues.

 

[PanheadXR290]

Why ?
Can you elaborate?

I sure can elaborate from 10 years of discussing this exact topic with new high end gear buyers at Audiogon,much of the new gear buying community is afflicted by the belief that the less in the signal path is better ,and presents a more accurate sound ,the way the musician intended us to hear ,notice the lack of tone controls and a loudness contour circuit on all high end brands ,except McIntosh ,audiophiles who won't buy a preamp due to it having tone controls in the signal path and they will not buy amplifiers with Autoformers,if you don't believe what I'm saying simply log in to Agon & do a search of " Autoformers " ,while most are influenced by the unnecessary circutry in the signal path others have real world issues where autoformer amps aren't a good match for their Electrostatic speakers or other low ohm speaker designs .

 

[62caddy]

Frankly I place very little stock in a number of views commonly held in that bastion known as "high end" community.

All I'm interested is whether a given unit is to perform as it should - namely 20-20k response with a minimum of coloration which in my view has never been impinged upon by the presence of tone controls or autoformers, nor is there any concrete demonstrable proof been offered to the contrary that I'm aware of - and certainly not to a level resulting in any significant audible difference, if that.

*Incidentally, a number of McIntosh amplifiers such as the MC2155 and MC2255 have output taps for 1 ohm.; in mono parallel mode these units could run 0.5 ohm. It is inconceivable there is a speaker in existence that either of these models could not power.

 

[ODS123]

audiophiles who won't buy a preamp due to it having tone controls in the signal path and they will not buy amplifiers with Autoformers,.

...And I won't buy an integrated withOUT tone controls or mono switch. I don't care how may "Lifestyle" products McIntosh introduces. ..They could offer a line of pet supplies for all I care.... Just DON'T drop the Tone Controls. ..They do wonders to make otherwise unlistenable songs enjoyable. To my thinking, they are what separate audiophiles from music lovers.

 

[4-2-7]

1st I'd like a show of hands as to how many here have bought a brand new McIntosh top of the line piece within the last 5 years .

 

[Pio1980]

...And I won't buy an integrated withOUT tone controls or mono switch. I don't care how may "Lifestyle" products McIntosh introduces. ..They could offer a line of pet supplies for all I care.... Just DON'T drop the Tone Controls. ..They do wonders to make otherwise unlistenable songs enjoyable. To my thinking, they are what separate audiophiles from music lovers.

I can be both without them, the mono switch I should add.

 

[62caddy]

This venom is tripping me out ,1st I'd like a show of hands as to how many here have bought a brand new McIntosh top of the line piece within the last 5 years .

I'll let @SA7I take that one.

 

[damacman]

I sure can elaborate from 10 years of discussing this exact topic with new high end gear buyers at Audiogon,much of the new gear buying community is afflicted by the belief that the less in the signal path is better ,and presents a more accurate sound ,the way the musician intended us to hear ,notice the lack of tone controls and a loudness contour circuit on all high end brands ,except McIntosh ,audiophiles who won't buy a preamp due to it having tone controls in the signal path and they will not buy amplifiers with Autoformers,if you don't believe what I'm saying simply log in to Agon & do a search of " Autoformers " ,while most are influenced by the unnecessary circutry in the signal path others have real world issues where autoformer amps aren't a good match for their Electrostatic speakers or other low ohm speaker designs .

We actually have quite a few threads here at AK discussing this topic as well - mostly as it pertains to flexibility, doubling down, current delivery, etc. From a practicality standpoint, the main benefit of the autoformer design is to increase the longevity of the amplifier by reducing heat generated by the output devices. In addition, a byproduct of this is that an autoformer equipped power amplifier can have less heat sink mass as compared to a direct coupled amplifier of the same power capability (at 8 Ohms).

 

[4-2-7]

the belief that the less in the signal path is better ,and presents a more accurate sound ,the way the musician intended us to hear ,notice the lack of tone controls and a loudness contour circuit on all high end brands ,except McIntosh ,audiophiles who won't buy a preamp due to it having tone controls in the signal path

Mac flagship preamps do not have tone controls, I should know I have one. They also made the effort of the preamp to turn off all switching once set, as well as have two box design keeping more crap away from the preamp.

and they will not buy amplifiers with Autoformers

Autoformers are not in the signal path.

others have real world issues where autoformer amps aren't a good match for their Electrostatic speakers or other low ohm speaker designs

Funny, my Martin Logan Sequel II are 6ohm nominal and dip to 1ohm, they are known amp eaters, never once a problem running them with any of my mac power amps.

 

[62caddy]

Tone controls are out of the circuit when the TONE BYPASS button is used on the C32, 33, 34 and others with the function.

I defy any living soul to discern between the EQ controls set to flat and the bypass switched on.

 

[Route 66]

Where did I get my statistics from ? Its no secret I'm friends with a McIntosh dealer ,I got my statistics from him and I have no reason not to believe him .

The questions I asked of those who strongly dislike this McIntosh Turntable have yet to be answered .

Well in that case, I'd love to know how he came up with the statistic that "70% of the ultra high end buyers loathe McIntosh amps."

 

[Mike Gibson]

Unheeded warning so it's now closed. Why didn't you take it to a PM instead of screwing it up for everyone?

 

[Mike Gibson]

OK, everyone seems somewhat contrite so we'll start again. Just please remember if you feel yourself getting irritated, mad or upset then merely sit on your hands until the feeling goes away. I do it all the time as I get irritated pretty easily when I ask for civility and get ignored.

 

[Archguy]

"notice the lack of tone controls and a loudness contour circuit on all high end brands ,except McIntosh"

Luxman and Accuphase both offer tone controls. Many of their models also include loudness contours. I find all of the above useful now and then, FWIW.

 

[SA7I]

This venom is tripping me out ,1st I'd like a show of hands as to how many here have bought a brand new McIntosh top of the line piece within the last 5 years.

I just bought a McIntosh MC462 and C70.

 

[4-2-7]

I just bought a McIntosh MC462 and C70.

You where supposed to show your hands like this.

 

[4-2-7]

Anyway back on topic, I wouldn't mind having this table to use for awhile, I just wish they would have kept the tubes off of it.

 

[PanheadXR290]

"notice the lack of tone controls and a loudness contour circuit on all high end brands ,except McIntosh"

Luxman and Accuphase both offer tone controls. Many of their models also include loudness contours. I find all of the above useful now and then, FWIW.

Yup ,they sure do have tone controls ,however ,go to Audiogon ,look up the preamp section and see how many Preamps have tone controls on the entire site ,you'll be lucky to find 3 that aren't vintage ,even McIntosh has hidden their tone controls and vanquished the loudness countour I loved .