WOW!! Is it April...McIntosh MTI 100

[PanheadXR290]

Well in that case, I'd love to know how he came up with the statistic that "70% of the ultra high end buyers loathe McIntosh amps."

Ok ,here goes ,my insight into the people who hate McIntosh comes from being a highly active member of the Audiogon forums the 1st year they were online ,the venom and mean spirited posts about Mac were made constantly by audiophiles who believe tone controls ruin a preamp,the audiophiles who hate McIntosh describe their mid-range as chocolatey with Caramel highs and pillowy bass ,meaningless drivel ,for the last 15 years every last post anyone makes at Audiogon is approved by a moderator before showing up in a thread ,they are a for profit site and delete any negative posts about any manufacturers gear before it's seen by the public ,anybody who was there the 1st year or two will remember the Agon threads being the wild wild west with members meeting up to fist fight ,I get my info partially from participating in those threads while trying hard to remain neutral as I was selling a piece or 2 of McIntosh a week for years .

I also remember how audiophiles viewed McIntosh as an amplifier company ,many weren't even aware McIntosh was a full service manufacturer In the years Clarion owned Mac ,I remember when Sidney Cordermans C-2200 tube preamp came out with a huge bang & forced the audio snobs to take notice of the best tube preamp designed that year ,pre C-2200 McIntosh had the reputation with audiophiles as Harley Davidson has right now with Motorcycle owners ,it took the C-2200 to open people's eyes .

Lastly is the talks I've had with my dealer friend who I used to buy 100% of his trade in gear before burning out ,he would and still does tell me inside scoops of what's hot & what's not ,after buying the C-2200 ,a pair of Mc-1201s ,a pair of Mc-252s and a Mc-2102 to triamp Roger Russell's white XR-290s I was so satisfied that I took around 15 years off from audio ,when I stopped selling & participating nearly 20 years ago Mcintosh was building the reputation they have now but it wasn't always like this , in the 80s & early 90s McIntosh got a bad rap of being an outdated company with outdated products ,my friend struggled to feed his family in the 80s selling McIntosh ,now he lives in a $750,000 house and drives a Jaguar as his work car .

That's the best explaination I can give you ,it's all from my own experiences,it's a long answer but 40 years of McIntosh buying & selling can't be reduced to a sentence or single paragraph.

 

[PanheadXR290]

I just bought a McIntosh MC462 and C70.

Awesome ,I already know the Mac gear is killer ,what speaker system is the new combo firing ?

I'm still waiting on a new glass for my MCD-550 ,as soon as it gets in I'm gonna try out the preamp section of the CD /SACD player and see how it does .

 

[Route 66]

Ok ,here goes ,my insight into the people who hate McIntosh comes from being a highly active member of the Audiogon forums the 1st year they were online ,the venom and mean spirited posts about Mac were made constantly by audiophiles who believe tone controls ruin a preamp,the audiophiles who hate McIntosh describe their mid-range as chocolatey with Caramel highs and pillowy bass ,meaningless drivel ,for the last 15 years every last post anyone makes at Audiogon is approved by a moderator before showing up in a thread ,they are a for profit site and delete any negative posts about any manufacturers gear before it's seen by the public ,anybody who was there the 1st year or two will remember the Agon threads being the wild wild west with members meeting up to fist fight ,I get my info partially from participating in those threads while trying hard to remain neutral as I was selling a piece or 2 of McIntosh a week for years .

I also remember how audiophiles viewed McIntosh as an amplifier company ,many weren't even aware McIntosh was a full service manufacturer In the years Clarion owned Mac ,I remember when Sidney Cordermans C-2200 tube preamp came out with a huge bang & forced the audio snobs to take notice of the best tube preamp designed that year ,pre C-2200 McIntosh had the reputation with audiophiles as Harley Davidson has right now with Motorcycle owners ,it took the C-2200 to open people's eyes .

Lastly is the talks I've had with my dealer friend who I used to buy 100% of his trade in gear before burning out ,he would and still does tell me inside scoops of what's hot & what's not ,after buying the C-2200 ,a pair of Mc-1201s ,a pair of Mc-252s and a Mc-2102 to triamp Roger Russell's white XR-290s I was so satisfied that I took around 15 years off from audio ,when I stopped selling & participating nearly 20 years ago Mcintosh was building the reputation they have now but it wasn't always like this , in the 80s & early 90s McIntosh got a bad rap of being an outdated company with outdated products ,my friend struggled to feed his family in the 80s selling McIntosh ,now he lives in a $750,000 house and drives a Jaguar as his work car .

That's the best explaination I can give you ,it's all from my own experiences,it's a long answer but 40 years of McIntosh buying & selling can't be reduced to a sentence or single paragraph.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I appreciate and understand a little better where you're coming from now.

 

[ODS123]

mean spirited posts about Mac were made constantly by audiophiles who believe tone controls ruin a preamp,the audiophiles who hate McIntosh describe their mid-range as chocolatey with Caramel highs and pillowy bass ,.

The tone control criticism is nonsense, IMHO. For the dedicated music lover they can help make an otherwise unlistenable song enjoyable. And when not needed, they do NOT audibly damage the signal. Golden-eared audiophile will make all sorts of incredible claims, being able to hear a signal break is among the most outrageous.

If a signal break audibly damages a signal then how is it possible that mixing boards have hundreds and hundreds of breaks yet have been used in pretty much ALL audiophile-approved recordings? If signal breaks are the bane of sound quality on the playback end of our music, they'd certainly have the same impact on the recording side. In fact, considering the sheer number of breaks you'd think the signal would be damaged beyond all recognition. Yet recording engineers don't obsess over how many sliders and switches the mixing board has from a signal-damage viewpoint. ..They are confident the signal passes through the unused sliders/ switches audibly-unaltered.

x

 

[PanheadXR290]

The tone control criticism is nonsense, IMHO. For the dedicated music lover they can help make an otherwise unlistenable song enjoyable. And when not needed, they do NOT audibly damage the signal. Golden-eared audiophile will make all sorts of outrageous claim and claiming to hear signal break is among the most outrageous.

If a signal break audibly damages a signal then how is it possible that mixing boards have hundreds and hundreds of breaks yet have been used in pretty much ALL audiophile-approved recordings? If signal breaks are the bane of sound quality on the playback end of our music, they'd certainly have the same impact on the recording side. In fact, considering the sheer number of breaks you'd think the signal would be damaged beyond all recognition. Yet recording engineers don't obsess over how many sliders and switches the mixing board has from a signal-damage viewpoint. ..They are confident the signal passes through the unused sliders/ switches audibly-unaltered.

View attachment 1425919 x

I think along the same lines as you ,just good ole fashioned common sense ,I recently saw a video on tone controls by Paul at PS Audio ,if I can find it I'll post it ,the guy helped create the Genesis speaker line and has made so much great gear that when he makes a claim I believe it ,his thoughts were much like what you stated ,I wish Chuck would get off the AV forum and start putting McIntosh out there on YouTube the way PS Audio is doing .

 

[SA7I]

Awesome ,I already know the Mac gear is killer ,what speaker system is the new combo firing ?

Snell A7 Illusion. http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/it’s-official-i’m-the-proud-owner-of-a-c70-mc462.851501/page-3#post-12458069

 

[PanheadXR290]

Snell A7 Illusion. http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/it’s-official-i’m-the-proud-owner-of-a-c70-mc462.851501/page-3#post-12458069

It figures,I open the link and get the dreaded ERROR message ,it's ok ,I'm familiar with your Snell Illusions from pics ,fantastic looking speaker but I've only seen pics ,never heard in person .

 

[SA7I]

I'm familiar with your Snell Illusions from pics ,fantastic looking speaker but I've only seen pics ,never heard in person .

The link should work now. You probably won’t get the chance to hear them since there are only 10 pairs in existence.

 

[PanheadXR290]

The link should work now. You probably won’t ever get to hear them since there are only 10 pairs in existence.

The screwy site log in stuff wouldn't allow me to post in your thread ,the entire set up is absolutely gorgeous ,it makes me realize how outdated my Mc-1201s really are ,the laquer finish on the Snell's is classy as hell ,not to mention the new style diamond cut knobs on your gear ,if it sounds 1/10th as good as it looks then you're good to go for a long long time ,what are your plans for the top shelf ?

 

[SA7I]

The screwy site log in stuff wouldn't allow me to post in your thread ,the entire set up is absolutely gorgeous ,it makes me realize how outdated my Mc-1201s really are ,the laquer finish on the Snell's is classy as hell ,not to mention the new style diamond cut knobs on your gear ,if it sounds 1/10th as good as it looks then you're good to go for a long long time ,what are your plans for the top shelf ?

The A7 Illusion from Snell Acoustics is a spectacular design and revered by people like Frank Gow at McIntosh. They are unbelievably realistic sounding. You won’t be disappointed! Sitting on the top shelf is a MacBook Pro and AudioQuest DragonFly (Red) DAC.

 

[PanheadXR290]

The A7 Illusion from Snell Acoustics is a spectacular design and revered by people like Frank Gow at McIntosh. They are unbelievably realistic sounding. You won’t be disappointed! Sitting on the top shelf is a MacBook Pro and AudioQuest DragonFly (Red) DAC.

I was wondering what that was ,I'm only a few months into streaming ,I love it but still don't know enough to recognize what you had going on on that shelf ,the bad part about living in Michigan is I will never get to aidition speakers like yours ,B & W is about as exotic as it gets around me ,they sure are beautiful ,you should be proud ,I would be .

 

[ODS123]

I think along the same lines as you ,just good ole fashioned common sense ,I recently saw a video on tone controls by Paul at PS Audio ,if I can find it I'll post it ,the guy helped create the Genesis speaker line and has made so much great gear that when he makes a claim I believe it ,his thoughts were much like what you stated .

Wow... I find this surprising because none of his components have tone controls.

 

[62caddy]

The screwy site log in stuff wouldn't allow me to post in your thread ,the entire set up is absolutely gorgeous ,it makes me realize how outdated my Mc-1201s really are ,the laquer finish on the Snell's is classy as hell ,not to mention the new style diamond cut knobs on your gear ,if it sounds 1/10th as good as it looks then you're good to go for a long long time ,what are your plans for the top shelf ?

Since the site changed to https (secure) protocol, I've also noticed that certain actions have gotten a bit wonky. .

 

[Gibsonian]

The tone control criticism is nonsense, IMHO. For the dedicated music lover they can help make an otherwise unlistenable song enjoyable. And when not needed, they do NOT audibly damage the signal. Golden-eared audiophile will make all sorts of incredible claims, being able to hear a signal break is among the most outrageous.

If a signal break audibly damages a signal then how is it possible that mixing boards have hundreds and hundreds of breaks yet have been used in pretty much ALL audiophile-approved recordings? If signal breaks are the bane of sound quality on the playback end of our music, they'd certainly have the same impact on the recording side. In fact, considering the sheer number of breaks you'd think the signal would be damaged beyond all recognition. Yet recording engineers don't obsess over how many sliders and switches the mixing board has from a signal-damage viewpoint. ..They are confident the signal passes through the unused sliders/ switches audibly-unaltered.

View attachment 1425919 x

The going argument against your points are that the mastering involves a professional who uses professional equipment to create a recording that is high quality and that any attempt to alter the recording will only add up to detrimental results, unless you use a change of cables and occasionally DSP. Tone controls considered quite heathen in this day.

 

[62caddy]

The going argument against your points are that the mastering involves a professional who uses professional equipment to create a recording that is high quality and that any attempt to alter the recording will only add up to detrimental results, unless you use a change of cables and occasionally DSP. Tone controls considered quite heathen in this day.

The other side of that argument is that not all recordings/ recording engineers are created equal. Considering that many of us listen to recordings spanning five decades or more, the chances of EQ variability are magnified considerably. The engineer who EQ'd using one model speaker to monitor the recording process can vary wildly to the engineer using another. That also assumes all engineers hear the same, and their preferences are the same.

Classical music recording is a whole 'nother ball of wax where there even is less ability to control variables resulting form different music halls, microphone placement, mixing & mastering - which is entirely different than when mastering takes place in a recording studio under controlled conditions.

In my book, there is nothing more unaudiophile-like than completely foregoing the ability to intervene in situations where correction is called for, prudent and necessary. As far as I'm concerned, some (particularly within the "high-end" segment of the greater audio community) have convinced themselves that they can hear differences they cannot. In some cases, I suspect vanity plays a role in that having no tone controls subconsciously making them feel like they're more of an "audiophile" , while helping to gain acceptance within a certain tribe.

While everyone should do whatever brings them the greatest satisfaction, I just hope for their own sake, they're doing it for the right reasons.

Cheers.

 

[ODS123]

The going argument against your points are that the mastering involves a professional who uses professional equipment to create a recording that is high quality and that any attempt to alter the recording will only add up to detrimental results, unless you use a change of cables and occasionally DSP. Tone controls considered quite heathen in this day.

Understood. Which is why 95% of the time they are zero’d. But occasionally I hear a song that - despite the recording engineers best effort - is unlistenable because of an excess of treble or boominess. Rather than pass over the song, I make slight adjustments to salvage the song. The purists suggests these basic controls are harming the music even when zeroed or the tone defeat switch is selected. To this I ask “how”?

 

[Gibsonian]

Understood. Which is why 95% of the time they are zero’d. But occasionally I hear a song that - despite the recording engineers best effort - is unlistenable because of an excess of treble or boominess. Rather than pass over the song, I make slight adjustments to salvage the song. The purists suggests these basic controls are harming the music even when zeroed or the tone defeat switch is selected. To this I ask “how”?

I use tone controls similarly. I haven't been able to hear this degradation myself.

Typically adjustments are +/- 3dB witin 20 - 20 Khz range, much of the time flat which is bypass on my pre.

For me it is similar to the sound of DD turntables cogging. I don't hear it.

 

[Pio1980]

LP

The tone control criticism is nonsense, IMHO. For the dedicated music lover they can help make an otherwise unlistenable song enjoyable. And when not needed, they do NOT audibly damage the signal. Golden-eared audiophile will make all sorts of incredible claims, being able to hear a signal break is among the most outrageous.

If a signal break audibly damages a signal then how is it possible that mixing boards have hundreds and hundreds of breaks yet have been used in pretty much ALL audiophile-approved recordings? If signal breaks are the bane of sound quality on the playback end of our music, they'd certainly have the same impact on the recording side. In fact, considering the sheer number of breaks you'd think the signal would be damaged beyond all recognition. Yet recording engineers don't obsess over how many sliders and switches the mixing board has from a signal-damage viewpoint. ..They are confident the signal passes through the unused sliders/ switches audibly-unaltered.

View attachment 1425919 x

Having heard analogue (and digital) recordings made thru a bare-bones signal chain, I much prefer those to typical recordings made the usual studio way. I prefer the same simple path at home for my own listening. As far as listening to recordings that "need fixing", I try to enjoy the performance and ignore the sound as much as possible. If that's not possible, life is too short to deal with someone else's incompetence in the quest for a pleasurable experience.
Fwiw, perfection is nice, but I don't expect it, technical competence with whatever gear and media of whatever age is always appreciated and enjoyed.

 

[PanheadXR290]

Wow... I find this surprising because none of his components have tone controls.

I vividly remember posting that very few manufacturers make Preamps with tone controls ,for a rig like Paul's I'm pretty certain the active crossovers he has in the loop alter the signal to a factor of 1,000 to 1 vs tone controls lol