Yamaha B-1 VS B-2 ? Can anyone describe ?

Discussion in 'Yamaha' started by pw8888, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. pw8888

    pw8888 New Member

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    hi
    Did anyone had a chance to test them side by side ?
    i own a B2 (love it !!) and would like to know if anyone could describe the sound difference …
    thanks !:D:D:D
     

     

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  2. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " F-15 Eagle Keeper Subscriber

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    Personally I can't hear any difference.
     
  3. Vint Age

    Vint Age B-1 With Yamaha

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  4. pw8888

    pw8888 New Member

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    no one else ?:D
     
  5. thanhdang63

    thanhdang63 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    FYI, here's a cut and paste of a PM from me to Nick (Vint Age) regarding the B-1 vs B-2 .. and a couple of other amps. This is based only on one man's system and opinion of course.

    Nick,
    I'm glad you contacted me. I actually did not get the amp until a few days ago and there were some electrical issues. I was able to work them out and needed to redo the capacitor bank and just finished 2 days ago. I've been listening to the amp every single chance I got. Short answer - in my opinion - this amp beats just about every SS amp I've ever heard and giving my Kenwood L-09Ms a really hard time fighting for shelf space. My initial comments to Chris:


    " Damn this is one smooth amp - not a hint of harshness top to bottom ( I think it might be a touch better than my L-09Ms in this respect and just as dynamic ). The music just pours into the room with such ease and the bass is just so impactful and gives you the feeling of being there in the jazz club - or wherever. This has got to be one of the most, maybe THE most non-fatiguing SS amp I've heard.
    Yeah it beats the B-2 in providing a more heightened sense of realism. Similar warm laid back tone as the B-2 but a touch cooler - which I prefer."

    And that was only after a couple of hours with a capacitor bank that had defective solder joints. Now that the amp is all fixed, I've had about 3 more sessions - and the amp is so addictive to listen to. It is so smooth I catch myself cranking up the volume and feeling a sense of realism I had not felt before with a wonderfully full sound stage. Not a hint of glare (harshness, graininess) that most amps have at the upper registers at louder volume. It's got a Naturalness to the sound that is hard to describe. I wished you could be here to listen for yourself - so I can get another opinion.

    I've paid more for amps that I thought sounded terrible - so it couldn't be me justifying the purchase by imagining it sounds great. The first night I swapped between the B1 & B2 and the B1 won on the reasons above - further listening keeps reinforcing the fact that the bass on the B1 has an uncommon quality to it. It's not that it extends lower but the whole bass range just envelops the room more completely and has a real snap to it. I just got back from a live jazz band and while I was listening I was thinking how similar the B1 sounded this morning. I never felt the need to keep the B2 in my rotation for an extended period of time but with the B1 I'm looking for a permanent shelf space.

    The last few sessions has been between the B1 and Kenwood L-09Ms. I switched them back and forth a couple of times last night and once this morning. Initially it sounded as if the B1 lacked details compared to the Kenwoods but upon more critical listening to tracks with inner details that I'm very familiar with, It's all there with the B1. It's like the difference between an HDTV with the sharpness cranked up vs one with the sharpness turned down ( the correct way to tune for HD content) All the details are in the turned down version but the picture looks so much more natural. That is the best analogy I can come up with.

    Before receiving the B1, I already had a shootout between the B2 and M2 and it was a toss up between the natural, warm tone of the B2 vs the Slam factor of the M2. I favored the B2 but some days I can see rocking out with the M2 - so the M2 remains in my family room system.

    I think I'm just rambling at this point. I've got to start reconfiguring my system - and find more time to listen to the B1. If you've got a line on one, you should seriously consider it. If it's local you might ask for a shoot-out with your system.

    One last note is that the B1 has been overhauled extensively. I don't think my B2 and L-09Ms have been gone over thoroughly although the output voltage offset measures very well on all these amps.

    Regards,
    Thanh
     
  6. pw8888

    pw8888 New Member

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    Great INFO !!:D:D
     

     

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  7. NumbDiver

    NumbDiver Super Member

    Ironic timing, I just PM'd some thoughts to another AKer.

    Here are some snipits I wrote to him:
    As far as the B-1 goes, its signature is a bit different. Better or worse depends on system synergy and supporting gear. Bass drive on the B-1 is even better than the B-2. The B-1 is not quite as laid back in the highs as the B-2 which could work for-or-against you, depending on system and room. Its seems more linear than the B-2, and obviously more powerful.
    Is it "That Good", as you state? I'd argue it is, if you consider its price. My gear is not top-tier, but I've been doing some comparisons against my Levinson No 20 Class A mono blocks (originally $13k and still well regarded); as well as my Krell KSA-80b Class A (which is Krell's all-time most musical amp). The B-1 fits right between the two, sonically. Given the cost of the B-1, I would argue that yes, it is That Good. But that's just my opinion.



    The huge class A Levinsons beat the B-1 IMO. But in fairness, I like warm/gooey/fat SS sound. If they were tube amps, the Levs sound more like El34 up top and the B-1 sounds more like KT88s. Both have similar bass drive and PRAT. The B-1 is more musical and involving than the Krell KSA-80b. But the Krell can drive a crowbar, where the B-1 cannot. The Krell also makes awesome space.

    B-2s have always had a place in my heart. I've owned four. Many times, multiples at once. I've always thought the B-2 is the 'whole package', especially given the price. You can use them on Klipsch horns as I have, or use them to drive an difficult speaker. It can do both well. The short amount of time I've had with my B-1s is that they are more similar than different; but the B-1 has more going on in the bottom end, and a slightly more forward presentation up top (but not in a bad way). Both the B-1 and B-2 seem effortless and never strained. I've never run out of power with a B-2, so unless you truly need the extra power, I don't see an advantage in that respect.

    That said, the two B-1s that I own are not yet re-capped. It's hard to really give a true review until I re-cap. These are just tonal differences. I won't give imaging/soundstage opinions till re-cap.

    My stacked B-1s
    <not my 2 channel system. Just testing them in the video room after biasing and repair>
     
  8. thanhdang63

    thanhdang63 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Great input NumbDiver - especially since it reinforces my subjective feelings about the B-1's sound almost to a T:yes:
     
  9. theophile

    theophile Pheasant Plucker. Subscriber

    I'll be following this discussion also.I loved my B-2 and I love my L-1000M and L-06M Kenwoods.
     
  10. Vint Age

    Vint Age B-1 With Yamaha

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    I've never heard a B-1 and I'd certainly love to do my own comparison just for fun ... in the mean time I think what I'm learning from this thread is that the B-1 and the B-2 have more in common with each other sonically than they have differences; the biggest being the additional output power available from a B-1. Since my listening area is fairly small I'm thinking that a B-1 would likely be wasted on me.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2012
  11. Vint Age

    Vint Age B-1 With Yamaha

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    ... and it looks like I'll be able to if I don't blow it up in the reconditioning ... :D

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014

     

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  12. clinic-audio

    clinic-audio all on YAMAHA untill 1990

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    Yamaha B-1 VS B2

    Hello vingt age

    1) I can just say that the bass reproduction through this amplifier is unique ! :yes::yes::yes:
    I never heard anything like that before to own 3 now ....
    2) I would suggest you : do not switch the power on :nono: on the one we can see in your pictures please !!
    I am ready to help you for any info you will need . There is so many things to do before to take the unique pleasure to listen it .
    3) the main problem on the B1 is the both big capacitors , and if one is bad you will drasticly destroy one (or 2) big output power FET !!!:nono:
    I will not be abble to help after !
    I have made one last month and it is a real pleasure to spend so much time for such listening pleasure .
    You must double check all the complete PCB before to do anything with it .
    I saw so many B1 damaged for ever by people who are not "aware" about the right fatory procedure .
    Don't hesitate to contact me if you defenitely want a perfect working B1 ! :thmbsp:
    A long time ago I read somewhere on the web that the Stevie Wonder LP "song in the key of life " was used B1 in studio during recording sessions (1976)
    I always be impressed by the deep bass in this record and I know why now
    :thmbsp: :banana::banana:
     
  13. clinic-audio

    clinic-audio all on YAMAHA untill 1990

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    Yamaha b1

    Just wanted to add that I will not recommend you to use 2 B1 one above each other (like in the video from numbdiver ) because when you see how the B1 is inside after 20 years of use ...The heat coming from the one under is " cooking " the one above :nono:
    Side by side would be much safe for their life time ! :yes:
     
  14. Vint Age

    Vint Age B-1 With Yamaha

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    2,231
    Clinic thanks! Do you mean the dual 15,000 uF? :scratch2:

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  15. clinic-audio

    clinic-audio all on YAMAHA untill 1990

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    Yamaha b1

    Hello Vingt age
    Here is a picture of the replacement "kit" I was talking about :
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  16. clinic-audio

    clinic-audio all on YAMAHA untill 1990

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    Yamaha b1

    Now don't forget the speaker relays too ! :
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013

     

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  17. Vint Age

    Vint Age B-1 With Yamaha

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    Clinic-audio thank you. Yes it would be nice to replace those ... but for now I'll focus on the other caps; it's my feeling that they're more likely to be a problem ...

    My progress so far:

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    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  18. Vint Age

    Vint Age B-1 With Yamaha

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    2,231
    My relay had the usual intermittent problem but the nice thing is since this B-1 didn't have a UC-1 attached, the 4 other relays were never used so I interchanged relay 5 with relay 1 and viola ... :D

    Of course, I did buy a fresh 1 to put in too. :thmbsp:
     
  19. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " F-15 Eagle Keeper Subscriber

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    Whats the total capacitance of your kit? How about a topside view?
     
  20. clinic-audio

    clinic-audio all on YAMAHA untill 1990

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    YAMAHA B1 vs B2

    Hello Avionic

    Here is some view of this kit saw on the web a log time ago . Pictures are not mine :yes:
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013

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