Yamaha C-4 phono stage question

[fiddlefye]

I have a simple question about the phono stage on my C-4 pre. It seems to me that the level from the MM input (when using the appropriate cart type, of course, M95, Grado Black, Stanton, Empire etc.) is much lower than when I run my low-ish output MC carts (DL 103, Benz Micro Gold) on the setting for that. I don't know exactly what the difference in db output is, but when making a recording from an LP the difference is about 50% in the setting in my computer program and I get a similar difference when listening to the system. Is this normal for a C-4, or is something in need of attention?

 

[fiddlefye]

I'm wondering if this was a silly question? Anyone else noticed this? The phono stage sounds fine on both MM and MC, but given my experience with my other Yamaha that does both types of cart (CA-1010) I wasn't expecting such a difference in level and wonder if this is as it should be?

 

[avionic]

My want to check your power supply voltages to the phono EQ circuit.Try cleaning your cart. load selector switches and phono select switch.But to answer your question.My C-4 iirc is a noticeably lower volume level as well. I've been using a Shure V15/type5 and a pickering XV-15/625E boyh are MM.

 

[fiddlefye]

My want to check your power supply voltages to the phono EQ circuit.Try cleaning your cart. load selector switches and phono select switch.

So I take it you're saying that what I'm experiencing isn't normal? Switches are all clean as a whip, but I'll have a look at the power supply and see if everything is as it should be. I have all of the manuals etc. to work from (think I got them from you, maybe?). I do find it odd that there should be such a difference in db output between the two settings. I could understand if were running high-output MC carts on the MC setting by mistake, but I'm not. It all sounds fine, just that big difference in output.

 

[avionic]

So I take it you're saying that what I'm experiencing isn't normal? Switches are all clean as a whip, but I'll have a look at the power supply and see if everything is as it should be. I have all of the manuals etc. to work from (think I got them from you, maybe?). I do find it odd that there should be such a difference in db output between the two settings. I could understand if were running high-output MC carts on the MC setting by mistake, but I'm not. It all sounds fine, just that big difference in output.

No.It sounds like yours is operating just like mine.Unless they both have the same malfunction.I guess anythings possible with electronics.I have mine semi disassembled for a recap when I get a little free time.

 

[fiddlefye]

No.It sounds like yours is operating just like mine.Unless they both have the same malfunction.I guess anythings possible with electronics.I have mine semi disassembled for a recap when I get a little free time.

I looked at the specs and wasn't sure, but I guess Yamaha just made the MC stage rather "hotter" than average, maybe thinking it would function better with some particularly low-output carts? I do know that I particularly like the sound of the MC stage, it's better than a number of dedicated phono stages I've used, but then I'm running better better carts there as well, right? Thanks for your feedback, it comes as a relief.

 

[avionic]

I'm going to have to break down and get a MC cart. one of these days..:yes:

 

[Dr. Ear]

I think Nothing is wrong with your pre. In my C-4 the MC-input is also a lot louder than the MM section. This is normal. This old MC stages are designed to work with very low output MC's like an Ortofon MC-30, all modern MC cartridges are much louder whereas average MM output level did not change very much in the last decades.

 

[Dr. Ear]

So your Denon cartridge has approx. 0,3 mV output level, the input sensitivity of the C-4 is 0,1 mV. The average output from an MM cartridge is 3,5 mV, the C-4 input sensitivity is 2,5 mV. Your MC must be much louder than the MM's.

 

[fiddlefye]

I'm going to have to break down and get a MC cart. one of these days..:yes:

OMG yes, you will find it sooooo worthwhile, especially with a good MC stage to use like in the C-4. I can't even begin to compare my MM carts to the MC ones and I'm not anywhere near the top of that totem pole. With a decent MC the C-4 just comes alive and sparkles and the music does too. If you play a lot of older Classical albums the Denon DL 103 suits beautifully to my ear, the tonal voicing is so in sync. Mine will be getting a Shibata-type stylus when the budget allows and it will be about as I good as I can imagine for all of my 50's and 60's stereo vinyl. I like my Benz Micro Gold a whole lot as well and it's even better for more recent stuff.

 

[fiddlefye]

So your Denon cartridge has approx. 0,3 mV output level, the input sensitivity of the C-4 is 0,1 mV. The average output from an MM cartridge is 3,5 mV, the C-4 input sensitivity is 2,5 mV. Your MC must be much louder than the MM's.

Ah, so that's how to view things. I suspected maybe, but I wasn't sure. I'm glad to know that all's well with my C-4 as in all other regards it is functionally perfect.