Yamaha CA-610 II delayed relay

Discussion in 'Yamaha' started by lectoid, Jul 14, 2014.

  1. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    I just picked this up from craigslist for $135. I also got B&W DM602's and a Philips 212 turntable for $500 total.

    Anywho, when I power the amp up, it takes 15+ minutes before I hear the relay click. And just before it I can hear a buzz, then click, then music.

    I downloaded the service manual and I believe it's the FRL-264 part number.

    I know my way around a circuit board and won't have trouble replacing any components, but because it eventually turns on, I've been enjoying this amp too much to take the time to pull the cover.

    I know I need to clean the contacts and other wise clean it up internally. Outside barely needs cleaning.

    I once found a thread talking about relays for this or a close model to this, but can't find it again, searching wasn't a help.

    Also while I have the cover off, is there any other components that I should look at replacing, whether or not they look like they need it?

    Thanks.
     
  2. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    The relay is most likely fine.Better chance of a dried up electrolytic cap in the protect circuit/PS.
     
  3. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    I noticed if I've had the yamaha on for a while and turn of off and back on, then it's about 5 seconds like I've read before it clicks on.

    Once you mentioned that capacitor, that does make more sense. Relays usually work or don't.
     
  4. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    Have a close look at electrolytic caps in the P/S
    C579 - 584 especially 584.
     
  5. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    Well I replaced all of those capacitors you mentioned. Still takes 10-15 minutes to throw that relay. All of the old ones tested good by the way.
     
  6. blhagstrom

    blhagstrom Mad Scientist, fixer. Subscriber

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    Have you checked the amp adjustments?
    (Page 8 in the service manual, instructions 1.1 and 1.2).
     
  7. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    OK . We need to start from scratch. We need to verify if there is any voltage present at the amplifiers output at power up. We will need to make this measurement at a test point before the relay contacts. Maybe the DC offset on one of the power amp assemblies is taking a long time to settle.


    Use the test points mentioned in the service manual on page 8 1.2 Checking Central Point potential. (DC offset). These test points are at the amplifiers output before the relay.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  8. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    Should I do this before the relay kicks in? As in leave it off for a while and then test. It's powered on right now.
     
  9. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    Precisely...Yes. Need to see any possible voltage at the output that could/may be triggering the protect circuit.
     
  10. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    At power on and over the next minute or so, TP1 and TP2 rise to .029V, TP3 and TP4 rise to .011V. So millivolts. These readings don't change through the relay buzz and eventual throw. I don't know if it matters, but tried this with and without music coming in and at a few levels of volume. Tested my meter on other electronics around the house and it's good.

    If it matters, the relay does shut off immediately after power off, to the point I had to watch it because the switch noise drowns it out. I only mention this because it's one of the tests in the manual, to be sure the relay shuts off.

    I took enough electronics classes in HS and college I should be able to figure this out, but that was 17 years ago and I got in to computers shortly after. So I understand schematics and what componets do, but have trouble understanding what readings should be where.

    But I extremely appreciate your help.
     
  11. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    For right now. The only voltages we need to be concerned with are TP 2 and TP4.
    Ground your negative test lead to chassis ground (E). Probe TP2 and then TP4 one at a time with the positive test lead.
     
  12. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    I did that. I just did te other two incase that mattered. I did ground black lead to E and measured tp2 and tp4.

    Tp2 was 29mV, Tp4 was 11mV.
     
  13. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    What do you mean by relay buzz ? Should be no buzz. Just a "click". If you hear a buzz. Then the relay is not getting enough voltage through the coil to "set" it.
     
  14. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    It buzzes for like a minute or so from a cold power on. Then clicks. Yea the buzz does seen like low voltage. I can see the relay move when it buzzes.
     
  15. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    If amp is on and I turn it off and back on, relay clicks after 4 seconds. The longer amp is off, the longer it takes for that relay. Off long enough, then that buzz comes back before the click.
     
  16. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    OK gotcha.. Can you post a detailed close up photo of C579 & C580. 470µf/50v
     
  17. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

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    I just replaced those yesterday. I triple checked the polarity too. Do you still need pictures? Replaced 6 caps, 579-584.
     
  18. avionic

    avionic " Black Knights " Subscriber

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    No..:scratch2: Have you replace C576 ? It could be one of the relay drive transistors or a cold solder joint on said transistors. TR577 ---> 2SA844 and TR578----> 2SA673A . Does the relay have HL2-P-DC12 printed on it ?
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  19. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

    Messages:
    23
    I have not replaced C576. I don't know about a cold solder joint, because of how consistent this issue is. I wiggled a lot of the components while I had it apart and didn't see any solder joints move.

    Relay has on top of it:
    FRL-264
    D024/02CK
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  20. lectoid

    lectoid New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Also what are the voltages I should be seeing at TP2 and TP4?
     

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