Yamaha CD-S2000 Thread

[Amplifierz]

Guten abend herr Bratwurst! It really is a joy to read your threads. The way you explain what you are doing! And level of expertise clearly shows you are passionate in what you do. Keep the good stuff coming James! I've learned so much from you already. Kind regards from your neighbor in the Netherlands.

 

[dino74]

I'm going to have to pay more attention to this thread. Looks like the NP-S2000 shares a lot with the CD-S2000. Hopefully I get my NP-S2000 back from Yamaha repair someday.


Looks like there is some difference after IC 15/18

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I'm going to have to pay more attention to this thread. Looks like the NP-S2000 shares a lot with the CD-S2000. Hopefully I get my NP-S2000 back from Yamaha repair someday.
View attachment 1359487

Looks like there is some difference after IC 15/18
View attachment 1359490

First thought after doing a quick look is that they have used a muting relay (RY1, RY2) in place of the hated (by me) muting transistors. That's a big plus imho. It pissed me off to find that a cdp in the price class of the CD-S2000 is using muting transistors, because there will always be some amount of leakage. A muting relay gives the same function but without the risk of signal leakage to ground during normal operations. I will most likely end up removing the transistors but they are SMD mount and a pita to remove.

Looking at the schematic that you posted I have to question the use of the 470µF coupling caps on the outputs (C149, 151, 153), especially without a film bypass cap. In my player that just ripped the life out of the music. Dropping those caps to a Nichicon bi-polar ES 100µF with film bypass caps made a dramatic improvement in SQ.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Guten abend herr Bratwurst! It really is a joy to read your threads. The way you explain what you are doing! And level of expertise clearly shows you are passionate in what you do. Keep the good stuff coming James! I've learned so much from you already. Kind regards from your neighbor in the Netherlands.

Thank you! The hope is always that what I post will be useful to someone.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I'm going to have to pay more attention to this thread. Looks like the NP-S2000 shares a lot with the CD-S2000. Hopefully I get my NP-S2000 back from Yamaha repair someday.
View attachment 1359487

Looks like there is some difference after IC 15/18
View attachment 1359490

Wow. I just noticed. You are using an MX-1 power amp in the kitchen? Respect. Please don't tell my wife. She might get jealous what with the little Yamaha Pianocraft system that I put in our kitchen.

Cheers,
James

 

[dino74]

Please don't tell my wife.

LOL, It started with a WXA-50 but it sounded off to me. Bought a WXC-50 and powered it with a MX-830 in the kitchen storage closet. It was good but the MX-830 just looked too fat next to the rice, canned goods, etc. Got lucky with the a craigslist MX-1 and now it looks just right.

 

[dino74]

Does DSD and PCM have different volume levels? I was looking at page 44 of CD-S2000's SM and I'm trying to figure out the purpose of the Transistors Q1,4,5,6,7,and 8. It looks like it's designed to change the volume level in the buffer amp for DSD vs PCM.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Does DSD and PCM have different volume levels? I was looking at page 44 of CD-S2000's SM and I'm trying to figure out the purpose of the Transistors Q1,4,5,6,7,and 8. It looks like it's designed to change the volume level in the buffer amp for DSD vs PCM.

That's a pretty interesting observation. I don't know if there is a difference in volume between DSD/PCM (both are decoded in the DAC) but those transistors look more like a muting transistor to me. And they are all supplied in parallel (L&R, Bal & unbal all have 1 common supply line) just like the final muting transistors. That makes me speculate that they are there to mute while the laser layer is being changed from CD to SACD.

You got me thinking about comparing with the CD-S2100 & 3000. Their SM's are in the AK database. There are several interesting things to see there. With both of those models Yamaha switched to a single (1) 2-channel DAC and completely discrete I/V & buffer stages. Neither of them have those DSD/PCM transistors as far as I can understand, and neither does your NP-S2000 drawing show them. So apparently Yamaha decided that they were unnecessary.

Also, the 2100 has final muting transistors but the 3000 has muting relays, and muting transistors? I must be seeing that incorrectly.

But then Yamaha went back to dual PCM1972 DAC's and op-amps with your NP model. Huh. Unless I'm confused.

Anyway, thanks for pointing me in that direction. Gives me food for thought. Ideally I'd love to find a complete spare CD-S2000 audio pcb. Then I could experiment to my hearts content without the risk of bricking my player. I may have to start looking for a source for one.

Cheers,
James

edit: Eh. Don't I feel silly. Please ignore much of my babble above because, yes, I was confused and didn't realize until just now that the NP-S2000 is a network player. That newfangled stuff can confuse an aging fellow. Things are making more sense now.

 

[belgianbrain]

James,

Your thread is very interesting. I did a lot of this sort of modding myself in the past.

Two questions:

1. Do you actually have measurable DC at the output of this CD player before the capacitors? No cap sounds better than no cap at all! Often your preamp or integrated amp will have caps on the inputs too, and then you end up with a series of caps in the way of your sound. I have a Yamaha CX-1000 and the CD input has the caps completely bypassed.

2. Have you considered using a CD player as a transport and getting a DAC instead? If you want to get a bargain and have a blast modding, you cannot beat an Adcom GDA-600.

 

[dino74]

but those transistors look more like a muting transistor to me.

I think but I'm not 100% sure but when the transistor is off the feedback voltage is equal to Vout. This puts the op-amp in buffering mode. Vout=Vin
When the transistor is on, the feedback voltage is reduced, making Vout higher. Vout = (1+2.2/5.6) Vin

 

[Bratwurst7s]

James,

Your thread is very interesting. I did a lot of this sort of modding myself in the past.

Two questions:

1. Do you actually have measurable DC at the output of this CD player before the capacitors? No cap sounds better than no cap at all! Often your preamp or integrated amp will have caps on the inputs too, and then you end up with a series of caps in the way of your sound. I have a Yamaha CX-1000 and the CD input has the caps completely bypassed.

2. Have you considered using a CD player as a transport and getting a DAC instead? If you want to get a bargain and have a blast modding, you cannot beat an Adcom GDA-600.

Some good questions.

Removing and jumping the output coupling caps is something that I've pondered but not done. You are of course correct that sound quality wise the best answer is no caps in the signal path. I've just been too chicken to do it. Next time that I have the player open I'll measure the amount of DC before and after the coupling caps. If I do such a mod it will be with the CDP rather than my pre-amp. Somehow I just don't want to leave my pre open to a DC attack.

Yes, I have considered buying a DAC. The main reason so far against it is space. I have room for a CD player. For a CDP and a DAC not. But that's not written in stone and I will continue to explore the thought.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I think but I'm not 100% sure but when the transistor is off the feedback voltage is equal to Vout. This puts the op-amp in buffering mode. Vout=Vin
When the transistor is on, the feedback voltage is reduced, making Vout higher. Vout = (1+2.2/5.6) Vin

OK. This is a good bit above my skill level but if I'm understanding correctly when the transistor is turned on there is a fixed amount of volume gain?

The questions that come to mind are:
Which mode gets the volume gain, CD or SACD. My impression as it now stands is that volume is a bit less with a SACD than with a redbook cd, but I'm not very sure about that.
Looking at the schematics for later models these transistors were done away with. So, the thought goes, were they found to be not needed, or did they decide that the cure was worse than the problem, or did they find a different way to do it?

Cheers,
James

 

[dino74]

I looked at the circuit some more. I think it's a low pass filter and the transistor alters the characteristic of the filtering. I'm guessing PCM and DSD has different LP filtering needs.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

The remote that was delivered with my cdp was a much older Yamaha cdp model and had minimal functionality with my player. I was looking at buying a new CDX-5 but on the weekend saw a new CDX-30 (CD-S2100 remote) for €20 less than the CDX-5 so I bought it.

It just arrived. At first I couldn't figure out why is is so heavy until I looked closely and realized that it has a solid aluminum faceplate. It has functions that I don't need but at least it does have all of the functions that I do need.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Up until now I've been too lazy to get up from my comfortable couch while listening to play with the Pure-Direct feature. Now that I have a badass remote I decided to play with that feature today.

I used a SACD of Cat Stevens Tea For The Tillerman and turned up the volume a bit so that any differences would/should be readily apparent.

So, if I closed my eyes, shut out all external distractions and really concentrated while switching back and forth with Pure-Direct on and off, I heard... ...nothing.

With my CX-1 this is a useful feature and I basically leave it on always. With the CD-S it's a feature that I think that they could have skipped. I had the same experience with my Denon DCD1510AE cdp. Just my opinion and it could easily smell like an onion.

Cheers,
James

 

[stoutblock]

Up until now I've been too lazy to get up from my comfortable couch while listening to play with the Pure-Direct feature. Now that I have a badass remote I decided to play with that feature today.

I used a SACD of Cat Stevens Tea For The Tillerman and turned up the volume a bit so that any differences would/should be readily apparent.

So, if I closed my eyes, shut out all external distractions and really concentrated while switching back and forth with Pure-Direct on and off, I heard... ...nothing.

With my CX-1 this is a useful feature and I basically leave it on always. With the CD-S it's a feature that I think that they could have skipped. I had the same experience with my Denon DCD1510AE cdp. Just my opinion and it could easily smell like an onion.

Cheers,
James

I have had the same experience. It does turn off the display which can be a distraction and in theory might cause some interference with the signal. I doubt you would even see the difference on a scope?

 

[stoutblock]

The remote that was delivered with my cdp was a much older Yamaha cdp model and had minimal functionality with my player. I was looking at buying a new CDX-5 but on the weekend saw a new CDX-30 (CD-S2100 remote) for €20 less than the CDX-5 so I bought it.

It just arrived. At first I couldn't figure out why is is so heavy until I looked closely and realized that it has a solid aluminum faceplate. It has functions that I don't need but at least it does have all of the functions that I do need.

View attachment 1360909

Cheers,
James

The only difference on the remote is the CD-S2100 provides inputs to the internal DAC while the CD-S2000 does not. Identical otherwise.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

After reading this...
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ead-the-joy-of-a-japanese-screwdriver.848654/

...and this...
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-joy-of-a-japanese-screwdriver.848453/

...I ordered a set of 4 JIS cross-tip screwdrivers from amazon. #1, #2, #3 in normal lengths and a #2 stubby.

They instantly turned into something that I wish that I had known about years ago. They just lock right into the screw head, especially the #1. Buying useful new tools always gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Thanks LBPete!

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

The only difference on the remote is the CD-S2100 provides inputs to the internal DAC while the CD-S2000 does not. Identical otherwise.

I like it. First, the old one (VP60840) didn't have Pure-Direct, Display, or Layer keys. it's layout is crappy and it came with corroded battery contacts from battery leakage.

The best thing about the new one is the layout/ergonomics. That play/stop/pause rocker/button thing is positioned just right. Nice remote.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Yesterday, armed with my cool new screwdrivers I put the player on the workbench again and pulled the PSU board again and added some more bypass film caps to the analog main filter caps. 0.47µF, 0.22µF, 0.1µF and 0.01µF.



Cheers,
James