Discussion in 'Yamaha' started by brinsmead, Jan 4, 2012.
The centennial series nameplate at the bottom of the wofers looks like gray plastic ?
And those ripe looking grapes that I can't reach, I am sure that are sour
Hello all - Sorry I haven't posted in a long time. I thought I might share a little secret with you. Does anyone remember that immaculate, minty pair of NSX-10000's on sale at HiFiDo in July of last summer? Well, I know who was lucky enough to snag them. I'm no professional audio critic or writer, for sure, but I do have many years of ownership of the better Yamaha speakers: NS-1000x (standard black), NS-1000xw (factory walnut finish), NS-2000, and now these. I've got several independent set-ups with various classic amps and configurations, as well as excellent small speakers as seconds for 4-way listening. I thought it might be fun to try to help answer some of the questions you might be having, if I can. Should I start a new thread for it?
Yes I do as I asked hifido if they were available!
Congratulations you have excellent taste in speakers.
Would love to hear your thoughts on those magnificent beasts. I still have my NS-2000.
As a consolation I have the magnificent Diatone DS-5000 in my living room, they are truely world class as well.
Well the NSX-10000's are certainly what the legends say - it's not hype.
I have NS-2000's in a very different set-up, and I really love them, but here are a few stunningly obvious differences to start:
1. Physically, the NSX-10000 does not have tweeter/mid volume adjustments. Instead, they offer an immaculately balanced factory setting that you wouldn't dare adjust if you could.
2. Sonically, I find the tweeter on the NS-2000 to be it's weakest point. For that reason, I run mine with a pair of B&W 805N next to them, half-amped so that only the tweeter plays, and adjust the tweeter level down on the NS-2000. The combination works pretty well, playing long symbol shimmers, etc., that are just a bit deadened and sometimes a even tad shrill on the 2000s alone. I prefer the tweeters on the NS-1000x, but they are still not up to snuff compared to the tweeters in some of my other speakers. This is one of the three main sonic areas that stand out on the 10000's: Yamaha solved all the problems the tweeter had on all the previous NS-1000 and 2000 series. This tweeter is super sensitive and delicate, and capable of the subtlest high note nuances. In terms of subtlety, I would compare it more to an Esotar than to the NS-2000 tweeter, though the overall sound of an Esotar is different, maybe more "colorful."
3. Also sonically, the bass on the NS-2000 is not only a tad deeper, but much bigger. Although I love deep, clear bass, I find myself actually keeping the bass adjust down on the amp I have driving those. Here again, on the NSX-10000 the bass is in perfect balance with the whole sound spectrum.
4. The NSX-10000s are so extremely system-dependent that changing any cable or preamp/amp driver/output tube anywhere changes the whole sound, moreso than the 2000's.
Testing sound quality differences between tubes in my various tube pre/amps is fun, and I can choose the tubes I like best very quickly compared to with other speakers.
With any decent combination, they are spooky natural and real. I often find myself turning the sound off and rushing to the window or door to investigate some outside sound, only to find that, once again, it was something on a recording.
All three of the drivers are designed based on similar principles as for rest of the series, but with significantly improved materials, production techniques, and design tweaks. The same goes for the cabinetwork and the crossovers. The NSX-10000 was the last of the Berryllium dome series, and incorporates lessons learned from all the previous models as well as a lot of new innovation.
I haven't heard the Diatone 5000's (yet), though I have test-listened to several high Diatone models from the era and their sound signature is great, and totally different from the Beryllium Yammies. Congrats on those as well!
Thanks for the very comprehensive response. I was wondering what pre/power amp & source(s) you used with the NSX-10000?
I had best results with my NS-2000 using GT-2000 with shelter 501 cart into vintage Sony pre TA-E88B into Sony TA-N7 VFET amp. Although the new Yamaha A-S3000 sounded excellent as well. I decided to use it with my Diatones. I also enjoy my Leben CS300xs tube integrated - has a really nice organic sound and nice synergy with the NS-2000.
The tweeter as mentioned could be sibilant- however I noticed on my well recorded vinyl this was not a problem. Certainly with poorly recorded albums this was an issue. The bass I rarely found issues with - I think the synergy with the VFETs worked really well. I can totally believe what you said about the realism & mistaking sounds in the recording with outside sounds. On many occasions I've listened especially at night and it was almost as if the band or player was in the room. Yamaha created very natural sound with these speakers. I noticed the bass response in the specs of the NS-2000 goes as low as 28hz in the NSX-10000 its listed as 35hz.
The Diatone DS-5000 are very well balanced speakers despite the massive woofers rated to go as low as 20hz. I really love the boron drivers - more than berillyum drivers. The mids & highs are magical - or diamond tone as Mitsubishi would point out! One Russian collector of vintage Japanese speakers & equipment, with a huge collection told me he preferred the older Diatone speakers up to around 1984 over the newer ones 1985 and up. I'm not too sure why.
I asked one of the vendors on hifido what was the difference between the NS-2000 and NSX-10000 he said the NSX-10000 was just more magnificent. I can believe that. Yamaha really appears to have left no stone unturned with the 10000 version. It's such a shame they are so rare. He did say however the new NS-5000 was like comparing a new 2016 Porsche with a classic Porsche with reference to the NS-10000. Not sure if you have heard the NS-5000 yet?
I've got an assortment of amps and preamps, mainly McIntosh and Luxman gear, and also a Manley Stingray. I like to change them around among speakers when I have time. Since I got the NSX-10000's last summer, I've had them connected to a table with an SS route as follows: Digital files played on a Mac running Amarra through a Chord64 DAC to a Luxman L-509u (125 W/channel into the 6 Ohm Yammies, just at their musical rating); and two tube routes: Vinyl on a Thorenz TD 126 through McIntosh C20 early model pre, output through either MC30's (one for each speaker) or an MC275 to the two speakers.
I envy you for the Leben. I had one some 10 years ago at home for a 30-day trial, but it didn't work well with a pair of difficult speakers I was fighting to make work at the time (Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage). I gave up on the Leben, and after several other amps also gave up on the Guarneri. I now really regret having given up the Leben (though I'm glad to be rid of the Guarneri). The Leben CS300x and 600x were relatively cheap (mine was Y60k, about $600) and easy to find in Japan at the time, as they hadn't yet been discovered widely outside. Nowadays they're hard to find here and . That amp has something really magical about it, it's great for tube rolling, and it is undoubtedly superb through the NS-2000's.
My NS-2000's are out in a country mountain house I have for relaxation and escape. I usually play digital files to it through a Hegel DAC and a McIntosh MA6800 amp, 150 W/channel. The MA6800 is a great amp, considered by many, including myself, to be the last of their SS amps with classic Mac tube sound. The NS-2000's are in a large, all-wood room, which I've done some room treatment to to reduce reflections and reduce an overall hardness in the sound. This is the pair for which I've augmented the tweeters with B&W 805N tweeters. I usually listen to Jazz and Rock on that system, or random new things, as loudly as I want because no-one else can here it even at house-shaking sound levels.
The extra deep bass, that drop to 28 Hz for the 2000 as opposed to 35 for the 10000 is noticeable to me as a bass lover. The MA6800 might be partially to blame for a blooming and out-of-balance effect of the bass I had mentioned, for which I turn the bass adjust down on the Mac amp, something I never do with my other systems. For a while, while the Mac was in shop for a check-up, I used a Manley Stingray (tube integrated) with it, with less of that effect, though it was still bass heavy. It might also have to do with room acoustics, etc. I like loads of bass though, and feeling it in my knees and chest, which the NS-2000s give me plenty of. On the other hand, the 10000 woofer is even faster and stiffer than that of the 2000, and it renders the bass in more lifelike tones and with greater detail.
It would be fun to have all my amps and speakers in the same room and a couple of weeks to compare it all. As you know, these Yammy thingies are beasts and not so easy to toss around.
Your Diatone DS-5000 system sounds great from the description, and I wish I could hear it. I'll definitely keep on the lookout for those here in Japan for an in-shop listen if they come around.
No, I haven't seen or heard them yet, but from what I've read "comparing a new 2016 Porsche with a classic Porsche" is probably an accurate description. They are in roughly the same price range, too. I have these NSX-10000 also partly for the romantic/historical/collector value, and, unlike my NS-2000's, the 10000's are in a 24/7 humidity/temp-controlled environment, with several classic McIntosh pieces, all in minty-gem museum-quality condition. For that reason also I haven't moved them to try in other rooms. As a collector-type person myself, their brand-new, nearly flawless condition is also part of the pleasure to me.
mrtim6 - BTW- Are you ever able to crank your NS-2000's up in volume where you have them, or have you ever tried it? They can play SUPER-LOUD with no distortion at all that I can perceive at least up to volume levels that make your eyes bleed, push the skin of your face back like an astronaut encountering multiple G-forces at liftoff, and force all household varmints to vamoose as if chased out by a hungry, wounded leopard!
This is truly awesome to actually hear about the fabled NSX-10000's. I get the hifido updates every day and absolutely remembered your set as I think the pair before them were in no where near as nice condition (scratched and missing the individual grill covers for the mid and high drivers). I have a really clean pair of the NS-1000x's (hifido) and they are most certainly system/component dependent. There is currently a gorgeous pair of NS-1000xw's on their site (sort of shocked there is not a "hold" on them) that really look like a dead ringer for the NS-2000's. I know Kenrick sound (Japan) experiments with different materials for tweeters and I bet they have a solution for the NS-2000 tweeter (at a premium of course).
Yes, that NS-1000xw should go quickly, and I'm also surprised it hasn't been snatched up yet, because of their rarity and, face it, handsomeness. The local market prices for the NS-1000M, X models tend to be a bit lower than the international/HiFiDo market, though.
I have a pair of NS-1000xw, and with the screens on they actually look more like a mini NSX-10000 than the NS-2000, mainly because the 2000 has a beveled top edge, giving it an overall "rounder" look. I've thought of replacing the tweeter in my 2000s with nice tweeters like Esotars as my old SF Guarneri's had, though the xover of 6k is pretty low for v those, but the cross-over circuit in our Yammies is a horrible task to mess with. I've also dreamt many times of handing my 2000's (plus a king's ransom) over to Kenrick sound and let them do their magic on the cabinet as well as the tweeter. Did you notice this week there are two really nice-conditioned NS-2000's up on HiFiDo? Honestly, I nearly freaked when I saw both an NS-2000 and an NS-1000xw suddenly on there at once this week, and nearly shaking I quickly checked the serial Nos. to see whether mine had been stolen (by someone verrry strong). It turned out the SN of that pair of 2000's is only one digit off from mine! Both of the NS-2000's got holds put on them the first day they appeared on HiFiDo. There is a long waiting list for them, because they are truly great speakers. My minor gripe about the tweeter is only relative to some other great speakers. Yes, that beaten-up pair of NSX-10000 you mentioned went for $7.5k in February or so, and someone is probably happy even with that, no doubt. I'm glad I held out for my pair though because I'm nerdy and finicky about the looks and collector value of things. I'd been on the waiting list for 8 or 10 years, and I am a very familiar face at HiFiDo, so I got lucky this time. I was also on their list for the GF-1 for that long, and a set finally came along at the end of 2014, but was way beyond my means. I don't feel a need to climb any higher for speakers anymore though (so far...)
The guy in the hifido Marunochi shop is really cool to talk to whereas Akihabara is of course more otaku style. I could definitely see myself picking up a pair of 2000's but 10000's would simply have to be a matter of right place at the right time in Japan because their typical price tag would not pass WAF. NS-1000M's seem to be plentiful around there and would make for a great crossover experiment. I really wish their email updates were faster because as you say the 2000's always have a hold on them as soon as they appear.
Sometimes the hold on something is only 1 person or a few. They have a week to check the item out in the shop before buying, and very often the first don't buy. It's always worthwhile to add your name to the list if you want something. I've obtained a number of things from there after waiting for others to release their hold. Yes, I know well about the WAF/price problem. That requires special techniques to get past ...
Cool, some mention of TOTL Japanese dynamic speakers here. Always like to see this topic.
Hi Deaf in Left - I asked hifido if your NSX-10000 were for sale as they were on my "alert system for new arrivals list" they told me there were 8 people ahead of me!
Regarding the previous pair of NSX-10000 which sold around $7500 in January 2016 - the damage to the cabinets was an absolute tragedy. Also looking at the chunk of wood missing (chipped) from one of the speakers and the scratches on top of the cabinets & the price really put me off. The previous owner clearly did not treat them with the respect they really deserve. My NS-2000 have mint condition cabinets.
I have tried playing them loud, you're correct they don't distort, neither do my Diatones and im sure they make my neighbors think we're being hit by subsonic tremors!
The beat up $7500 pair was probably originally a gift from Yamaha to one of their employees and then found it's way to a friend or business associate's living room and then to a garage or basement somewhere. The Japanese usually take amazing care of everything so it means somebody really really didn't want that pair (probably the weight being a factor). But... pretty much perfect candidates for a Kenrick cabinet upgrade/refurb. It would be cool to know what the purchaser intends for them.
Hi mrtim6 - Yes, I was on HiFiDo's waiting list for 8 or 10 years for the NSX-10000, and I've been a pretty big customer there for longer than that. When HiFiDo notified me of their arrival and my one-week consideration period was on, they reminded me to irritation that 8 people were waiting after me and wanted me to make up my mind quickly. However, I was in the middle of a 16 hr/day workweek, and couldn't get there till the weekend, the final day of my week. That was a sort of hell week of suspense. When I finally got to the shop to see them, however, they had them set up with "do not touch" signs all over them and as close as they had to my kind of equipment and set-up as they had in the shop at the time - very personalized. They sent 3 men to deliver and set them up at my house. The suspense reached a peak as the smallest guy single-handedly carried one speaker at a time down my VERY steep and spiraling staircase with the other two hollering out how many centimeters of space from the walls he had with each step. They even carried my NS-1000xw pair that I was replacing back up those stairs and into my car for me so I could bring those out to my country house. Very nice service.
I wasn't notified some months earlier when that beaten-up pair of NSX-10000 arrived. That probably means that at least one other was on the waiting list even longer than me, and they bought it before my turn came up. I'm glad they didn't notify me, because I would have been in absolute hell trying to decide whether to buy them in that condition. I agree completely with 808_state about how immaculately well the Japanese take care of their stuff, which made it all the more shocking to see the condition of that pair, and I also imagined scenarios of how it possibly could have come about. I was thinking more along the lines of spoiled children, a pet gorilla, or many years in a rough night club. Getting Kenrich to do their magic on them is a great idea, but the combined cost would have probably been even higher than the price of my minty pair. The pair I got are in such new condition, the HiFiDo guys think the owner probably just had them in storage all those years and rarely, if ever, used them. From the tightness of the bass, they also think my pair might never have been "broken in" yet. They didn't have the original boxes or documentation though.
My NS-2000 cabinets are in "very good" condition, with a few small dings here and there, which makes me feel more relaxed with guests around them. I'm always leary of even looking at my NSX-10000 too intensely for fear of damaging them.
mrtim6 - Have you compared your NS-2000 to your Diatones? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.
Have you posted any pics of your Diatones?
If anyone wants, I can try to put some iPhone camera snaps of details of my NSX-10000s on here. For example, I was surprised that the gold-plated Berryllium driver protectors are magnetic and come right off, leaving the Berryllium (dangerously) nude. The diffraction pattern rainbow effect due to their thinness looks really cool without the covers, if I can capture that.
Hi 808 & Deaf in Left, I agree entirely the Japanese usually take exemplary care of their equipment- that was why I was so surprised at the mystical object (NSX-10000) arriving down trodden.
The photo below was my initial placement- I have since moved them to the opposite wall & improved the space around them. The TV on the wall is an old Samsung 40 inch LCD. I love how the speakers dawarf the TV, most houses have tiny tinny speakers around gigantic TVs. My front end consists of Oppo BDP blue ray universal player and Yamaha CD-3000 SACD player. Both devices are connected in balanced in configuration into the Yamaha A-S3000 (125th anniversary integrated amp). The amp & CD player are real sleepers mine was half retail price here in Australia with 10 year warranties.
I may purchase a second turntable as I don't like carrying my GT-2000 up & down stairs.
The Diatone DS-5000 IMO ar
e superior to the NS-2000 in every way except perhaps detail retrieval which are at similar levels. The boron drivers (only ever manufactured by Mitsubishi) are better than beryllium IMO. The exceptional wall of sound they put out is astonishing. Again the ability to play at loud levels without distortion is present.
Their frequency band is very wide 20hz up to 60000hz. The sub bass and bass integration with the mid & tweeter is fantastic. Despite monsterious size the bass is exceptionally well balanced.
Here are my beautiful NS-2000s. I had a local artisan hand make the stands, based approximately on the original design for the NSX-10000 stands
We would love to see your beautiful NSX-10000s
Separate names with a comma.