Yamaha Separates vs. Integrated vs. Receivers

I've got a Yamaha A-1 and it runs what I would call 'warm' after an extended session. My Pioneer SA-8500 seems to run about the same temp. They don't sound the same at all though!

BTW, to me, 'warm' means I can put my hand over the vents and leave it there for as long as I wish.
 
Run your M-80/85 in class A into a 4 ohm load for 30 mins and see how long you can rest your hand on the top case vents?
 
I run my newly-refreshed m-70 for hours at a time w/o it getting more than slightly warm. The danger, fire-wise, was a particular capacitor in the power supply that, over time, will supernova. There was at least one thread on this a while back that contained a link to the warning letter. I would also caution that the problem is a little more widespread than the letter indicates, as my m-70 was affected, though it is not one of the particular models mentioned. You can get the replacement part directly from Yamaha. Not a particularly difficult install, but some disassembly is required, so it is a bit time consuming (you CAN actually make the swap with the board in place, but it is a pain in the ass, and the chances of screwing up the solder is fairly high if your a
n00b...I won't tell you how I know that :D ).
Also, I'd say, listen to Merrylander. That dude has refurbed more yammie receivers than most of us have seen, so when he says theres something wrong if your ca or cr is runnin hot, I'd believe him.
Dems ma pennies
Richard
 
Sasquatch2 Yamaha has done some exelent integrated and recivers, but in general the the ranking is recivers -> integrated -> seperates. There are many factors in this, one is the seperate housing of the different functions - like a seperate pre witch is shilded by it's own housing and less noise due to it's own power supply. Another thing is of curse higher grade components in the seperated since they are targeted at a market willing to put more money into there stereo, if it just would be the same stuff in a seperate box with a much higher price tag they properly would not sell that much.

But there are special units like the A-1, A-2000(a) and AX-2000, not forgetting the CR-1000 and CR-3020. They are something special.

Bigears: What amp in the same kind of setup do not get hot?
Imagin holding a tube that has run a 4 ohm load for 30 mins.

SoCal Sam: did you remember to switch the powersupply to 120V?, acording to a Yamaha tech - if they are switched to 110V is why they go puf.
 
I started with a C-4 which I purchsed new in 1980, matched with a Kenwood power amp. Now I have a CR-1020 & I couldn't be happier. Back in the day, I turned my nose up to receivers, but now I really like them. Go fugure!
 
Bigears: What amp in the same kind of setup do not get hot?
Imagin holding a tube that has run a 4 ohm load for 30 mins.

My M-85's were replaced with three PC-2002M's that under the same conditions barely get warm and sound better as well. I like the M-80/85s, however the PC-2002Ms are an upgrade in every way.
 
Last edited:
How can you base a recommendation on heat? Sounds great, too hot, forget it.

I've had four units blow up on me and three of them were Yamaha's: M-80, CR-1020, and CR-3020. Not worth the trouble especially when there are makes and models that sound better AND run cool.
 
My M-85's were replaced with three PC-2002M's that under the same conditions barely get warm and sound better as well. I like the M-80/85s, however the PC-2002Ms are an upgrade in every way.

It's not the same condition; as you stated the M-85's where running class A, the PC2002M can't do that. You have to compair class A amps or run the M-85 in normal mode (where they don't get that warm).
 
It's not the same condition; as you stated the M-85's where running class A, the PC2002M can't do that. You have to compair class A amps or run the M-85 in normal mode (where they don't get that warm).

Yamaha's Class A mode in my CA-2010 is barely better sounding than standard Class AB. IMO, the switchable Class A mode and auto Class A feature are not suited for amps that are not specifically designed for Class A operation. Class A requires components with far closer tolerances, extensive heatsinks, and better build quality to endure heat cycles. Anyways, definitely a nice showroom feature.
 
well I thought we where talking about heat, and in that regard I might say the M-85 in auto class A is a quite capable amp. properly more capable than many pure class A amps doing 30W :)
 
My recent garage sale purchase.
$12 for the CR-620.. awaiting a replacement knob from eBay.
I also own a CR-440
CIMG4795.jpg

CIMG4796.jpg
 
The M and MX series amps run too hot for my comfort.

What has this got to do with anything? Do you sit on the amps when you listen?

Seriously, how hot an amp runs (unless maladjusted) gives one a piece of evidence that the amp is running in Class A or biased high into it.

Simply get more shelf room or better ventilation. If the amp sounds better, despite being hot, what is more important?
 
It's important in that SoCal has another thread in which to torment Yamaha fans. He's a known hater of many consumer models that others think deserve better and just comes around to stir the pot, hoping to push a few buttons along the way. SoCal rarely has anything much constructive to add, always just hating on Yamaha's consumer gear.

None of this addresses the OP's original question, and I suspect he has long since been scared off by all this drivel.

Bottom line is that while there are always exceptions to the rule, Yamaha generally put more effort, design, and expense into building most of the separates and they simply sound better. It would take some serious contenders, better Yamaha models notwithstanding, to knock off my C-2a or MX-2000. The CX-1000, C-80, M-2 and M-4 are also clear winners.

FWIW, I have four M-80's and have only ever lost partial output level on one channel on one amp. These amps have/had been pulling severe duty in my HT setup running the 250Ti's at high levels and in a confined cabinet to the point of near meltdown temps for YEARS, a job I suspect many of these amps have endured, until replaced by PC2002M's; one piece of gear we all agree is nearly bulletproof, runs cool, and sounds great.

Not everyone can find a good deal on a PC2002M or (insert your mondo amp of choice here) so you make do with the best you can. You can't go wrong with nearly any piece of Yamaha gear that's properly adjusted and functioning within spec.
 
It's important in that SoCal has another thread in which to torment Yamaha fans. He's a known hater of many consumer models that others think deserve better and just comes around to stir the pot, hoping to push a few buttons along the way. SoCal rarely has anything much constructive to add, always just hating on Yamaha's consumer gear.

None of this addresses the OP's original question, and I suspect he has long since been scared off by all this drivel.

Bottom line is that while there are always exceptions to the rule, Yamaha generally put more effort, design, and expense into building most of the separates and they simply sound better. It would take some serious contenders, better Yamaha models notwithstanding, to knock off my C-2a or MX-2000. The CX-1000, C-80, M-2 and M-4 are also clear winners.

FWIW, I have four M-80's and have only ever lost partial output level on one channel on one amp. These amps have/had been pulling severe duty in my HT setup running the 250Ti's at high levels and in a confined cabinet to the point of near meltdown temps for YEARS, a job I suspect many of these amps have endured, until replaced by PC2002M's; one piece of gear we all agree is nearly bulletproof, runs cool, and sounds great.

Not everyone can find a good deal on a PC2002M or (insert your mondo amp of choice here) so you make do with the best you can. You can't go wrong with nearly any piece of Yamaha gear that's properly adjusted and functioning within spec.

So you agree with me!:yes:

Heat is bad for any number of reasons and it is a point that should NEVER be ignored. Hot capacitors do not store or discharge energy efficiently. I'm sure other components like resistors change value when heated. All this in addition to curling PCB's and heat shocked solder joints.

Let's keep within the spirit of AK and STICK TO THE GEAR!!!
 
Yes, we were talking about heat AND the probable cause.

No, we where talking sound quality differences between recivers, integrated and seperates from Yamaha (see post #1).

Heat is bad for any number of reasons and it is a point that should NEVER be ignored. Hot capacitors do not store or discharge energy efficiently. I'm sure other components like resistors change value when heated. All this in addition to curling PCB's and heat shocked solder joints.

Yes and no; if a device is designed to work in a warm/hot environment, heat is only a problem if it exceeds the specified arrear of function/design. If an amp runs hot, is not equal that it sounds bad.

IIRC the caps in most Yamaha gear is rated to 85 degree celcius, so up to this point they will not run out of spec.
 
I cringed when I pulled my M-65 out of circulation in favour of an RX-V2090 receiver a couple of months ago (needed 5.1 inputs for DVD-Audio/SACD) but you know what? The 2090 sounds great mated with my better gear. I have been using Yamaha separates and receivers for years and liked them all. Separates are nice for a number of reasons but if you're "stuck" with integrateds or receivers, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.
 
I still maintain that if a unit runs hot there is some adjustment that is off specification. We have four systems here; a CR-1000 driving NS-670 speakers, a CR-2020 driving Polk Monitor 7Bs (and it is in a cabinet behind glass doors), a CR-800 driving Polk Monitor 10Bs and a CR-2040 driving NS-690s and none of them run hot. Of course neither my wife nor I suffer from hearing loss so they run a reasonable volume levels.

Having serviced many of the C-series receivers and separates I can tell you that the similarities are far more normal than the differences between separates and receivers. That said there are any number of listeners who prefer the coloration imparted by many other brands to the transparent sound of these early Yamahas and that is fine by me as it leaves more of them to us.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom