Yamaha vs. McIntosh?

[brutal]

Since Yamaha has been around so long then surely they must've dabbled in tube gear at some point in time; or maybe not? Most all the other Japanese audio mfgs. made tube gear I'm just wondering if Yamaha did?

Actually, Yamaha did make tube gear back in the 60-70's. Mostly guitar amps, but there was a model or two for studio/home use.

I've seen them advertised for sale just this past year but didn't grab the copy/images for posterity. One, as I recall was for a pair of old Yamaha monoblocks. Google finds some hits on them, mostly the guitar amps.

It's purely my opinion and speculation that Yamaha, given it's desire to achieve the "natural sound" gave up on tubes and concentrated on building great SS gear.

I think this thread has gotten pretty out of control based on the expected tone one generally finds on AK. Too much conjecture and sharpshooting based on little direct listening comparisons. I wouldn't say a bad word about any piece of Mac gear I had never personally heard and am getting a little tired of the Yamaha bashing by ill-informed golden-eared audiosnob gearhounds.

 

[specialidiot]

I've seen them advertised for sale just this past year but didn't grab the copy/images for posterity. One, as I recall was for a pair of old Yamaha monoblocks. Google finds some hits on them, mostly the guitar amps.

I did not know that /carnac

It's purely my opinion and speculation that Yamaha, given it's desire to achieve the "natural sound" gave up on tubes and concentrated on building great SS gear.

Could be... if you do something really well, then keep doing it!

Too much conjecture and sharpshooting based on little direct listening comparisons. I wouldn't say a bad word about any piece of Mac gear I had never personally heard and am getting a little tired of the Yamaha bashing by ill-informed golden-eared audiosnob gearhounds.

Well put Brutal.

I have compared. I preferred a CR-1020 over my DeWick'ed 1900.

I just did not care for the C712 I had, the seller said it too had been to see Terry although I did not verify that. But it was very analytical to my ear.

My MC225 was very nice, but not on everything. Once I put my F5 into my office system, I couldn't take it out as it does everything very very well. Since I don't like to have gear in it's box, I sold it too.

So three up, three down for McIntosh.

 

[Tromatic]

It's not McIntosh snobery, its just comparing apples to oranges.

I've got no doubt Yamaha makes some fine gear, but it's not Mac... You mention the high-end Yamaha gear, with McIntosh, you don't have to hunt for the high-end gear; every single component they make is the very best they can do with then current technology, there is no bad Mac gear. Add in that it's made by hand in the USA and backed up with incredible factory support and killer resale value, and it's in another league.

*Note: I don't even own any Mac at the moment, but the pieces I have had made an impression that lasts even now that I'm headed in the triode direction.

OP asked about 'classic'. Classic Yamaha (late 70's to early 80's) smokes Mac gear.

Mac gear is a cult, or a lifestyle choice. If Mac made motorcycles, they would be HD's. A very specific market of clueless dolts with money or some very savvy gearheads, not much in between.

Mac has any number of classic, good-as-any pieces of gear as does Yamaha. My buttons are pushed by 'classic' Yamaha gear in a way the Mac does not. A Yamaha M-2 or M-4 amp or CA-1000 has it all over any Mac amp you care to name.

My ears, of course, but I have yet to hear any Mac gear I'd buy.

ETA: Yes, I meant to insult HD's. Nice gear, but they FAIL as motorcycles intended as machines to accelerate, turn, and decelerate. Anyone else I can insult?

 

[motorstereo]

Thanks Brutal. Whether or not it's "relevant" I learned something new today; I never knew Yamaha made tubed audio gear.
For what it's worth and whether or not it's relevant I'm not impressed in the least with my new to me today yamaha t85 tuner. Sorry Yamaha guys this is a major disappointment.

 

[Tromatic]

Thanks Brutal. Whether or not it's "relevant" I learned something new today; I never knew Yamaha made tubed audio gear.
For what it's worth and whether or not it's relevant I'm not impressed in the least with my new to me today yamaha t85 tuner. Sorry Yamaha guys this is a major disappointment.

Given the heavily mangled state of most FM signals these days, I'm not surprised. Tuners do need a bit more TLC than the average vintage gear.

I was underwhelmed by the last Mac tuner I had on the rack, too. Some vintage Kenwood and a Technics or two smoke all if you have a decent signal.

 

[MX117.MC7150]

For what it's worth and whether or not it's relevant I'm not impressed in the least with my new to me today yamaha t85 tuner. Sorry Yamaha guys this is a major disappointment.

Very unusual. Most folks who are 'FM tuner officianados' consider the T-85 to be one of the best perfroming and best sounding tuners available. It is considered to be among the top available as a DX machine. Being ~30 years old it would not be unusual that your particular unit may need an alignment and/or a recap. Also, what particular antenna are you using. The best tuner out there sounds like crap with a poor antenna.

 

[motorstereo]

Oh oh. Seems like I may have to eat my words; (gobble gobble). It seems the funky little balun type connector that the t85 takes had the wire bent over and was not making any contact. All is well now. I guess you just don't come home tired and connect things with out being thorough. My bad.

 

[brutal]

Oh oh. Seems like I may have to eat my words; (gobble gobble). It seems the funky little balun type connector that the t85 takes had the wire bent over and was not making any contact. All is well now. I guess you just don't come home tired and connect things with out being thorough. My bad.

Radio Shack (of all places) has the PAL to F-Type adapters that are needed on many of the Yamaha Tuners. Getting the correct adapter, instead of just jamming a wire in there certainly improves things.

 

[Axcel]

OP asked about 'classic'. Classic Yamaha (late 70's to early 80's) smokes Mac gear.

Mac gear is a cult, or a lifestyle choice. If Mac made motorcycles, they would be HD's. A very specific market of clueless dolts with money or some very savvy gearheads, not much in between.

Mac has any number of classic, good-as-any pieces of gear as does Yamaha. My buttons are pushed by 'classic' Yamaha gear in a way the Mac does not. A Yamaha M-2 or M-4 amp or CA-1000 has it all over any Mac amp you care to name.

My ears, of course, but I have yet to hear any Mac gear I'd buy.

ETA: Yes, I meant to insult HD's. Nice gear, but they FAIL as motorcycles intended as machines to accelerate, turn, and decelerate. Anyone else I can insult?

Let me see if I understand you don't like Mac Gear:scratch2: but as you have a right to your opinion the many Mac lovers in AK would strongly disagree. I have had a limited exposure to both and neither blow me away. I fell back on Accuphase and it rules as top dog far as I am concerned.
But there is a few Yammie and Macs I would love to try. Relax its all good

 

[stereofanboy]

I noticed the correlation between Harley Davidson and McIntosh a while ago and gave it some thought. It seemed to me that there is a stronger correlation between the customers than the products.

 

[Tromatic]

Relax its all good

Never said it wasn't. It IS all good if it makes you fly for a few minutes. Who could ask for more stuck to this ball of rock as we are?

:guitar::ntwrthy:

 

[Tromatic]

Oh oh. Seems like I may have to eat my words; (gobble gobble). It seems the funky little balun type connector that the t85 takes had the wire bent over and was not making any contact. All is well now. I guess you just don't come home tired and connect things with out being thorough. My bad.

Doh. My ST-9030 is very picky; even Larry Flynt would wonder about the position I have to take for the best 'reception'. If not for the absolute freaky modulation it provides on occasion, I'd give it up.

 

[carbonman]

I owned a CA-1010 amp. It was a great sounding piece of gear. The only flaws were that the start delay relay wore out and the amp became a pain to get running when it was physically cold, and the controls got a little noisy after a few years. Sonically it was a superb integrated amp.
I love my Mc gear, though!

 

[Tromatic]

I owned a CA-1010 amp. It was a great sounding piece of gear. The only flaws were that the start delay relay wore out and the amp became a pain to get running when it was physically cold, and the controls got a little noisy after a few years. Sonically it was a superb integrated amp.
I love my Mc gear, though!

No way in heck can you blame 30 years of physical wear on the brand or design.

 

[titanstats]

Good thing that we're all different, else we'd all have the same gear. I've compared too, and my result was the opposite of specialidiot's -- still have the Macs, the Yammies are all long gone out the door. Not that they weren't nice, or anything...

Don't think I'm any part of a cult -- that's just basically a somewhat stupid generalization. I own Macs because to me they look beautiful, sound beautiful, have amazing build quality, and I've wanted one since I was a kid. Now I have some, and they are as good as I'd hoped they were. :thmbsp:

When I eventually upgrade, I'll still get a good dollar for them, and if I bust the faceplate on one, I can still order a new one, some 30 years after production. MacStuff is still made in the US, of course, none of their production coming out of China, Malaysia, Korea, and other places unknown.

Still looking for a 3020 though, just for the fun of it.

 

[theebadone]

yamaha vs mac

I think if you're buying mac as a statement, you're buying for the wrong reason. I ended up with a few pieces of mac gear because, they sound great with horns. If Soundesign made something that sounded as nice with horns, that's what would be in my system. Mac gear is expensive, is the price justified?, I think so, great build quality, most parts are readily available, and the customer service is great, Even for the vintage macs. And in this day and age, customer support means alot, at least to me it does. How many of us has dropped our vintage gear off at the fix it shop, only to learn the particular model you have can't be fixed, because parts are no longer available? Yamaha makes some great gear as well, but my experience with yamaha is, it doesnt do well with super sensitive speakers, like horns. But there are plenty of other great sounding speakers out there that do sound great on the yamahas. So in the end, (its only audio gear) buy what sounds good to you, and fits your budget. And i dont think Harley makes the best bike on the road, every serious long distance rider knows that, BMW gets that award. :yes:

 

[Les Lammers]

Why not? Only you will know which you prefer and you won't know that until you hear them for yourself. :yes:

 

[hwirt]

Reading through the posts in this thread one could summarize that at one point in time Yamaha made separates that were comparable to McIntosh the 101M/PC5002M for example (although I’m not too comfortable with the exposed transistors on the rear panel which could carry hazardous voltages, perhaps a cover was removed for taking pictures?)

Looking at Yamaha’s product line today indicates they abandoned the separates market with the exception of the MX-D1 which appears to be a re-packaged commercial stage amp using a switching type power supply. Certainly their current “high end” products can not compare to what McIntosh offers and that has likely been the case for decades. So if you live in a time warp I guess you could say Yamaha is equal to McIntosh, but that would not be reality today.

 

[sheltie dave]

Count me in with Axcel...Accuphase is some top not gear, and their gear is on par or above the Mac line in many cases. McIntosh is the American version of Accuphase :thmbsp:

With the autoformer Mac gear, the AFs do quite well blocking DC from leaving the amp when brief clipping occurs, and do have a play with the damping factor - but damping factor is what it is, in the end. Some people like lean bass, some people note that bass needs ass to be b-ass...and the lower Mac damping factors ensure a nice thick lower end.

The top end Yamaha gear has superb build quality and finish, and is better than the similar Mac gear of the era. For instance, the vaunted Mac supply line to support its vintage lines is due to Gow's insistence on simple design using common parts, nothing too exotic. Also, I have run into very few people who extoll the thin, double chromed chassis for Mac's tube gear that normally is easily pitted if not ruthlessly cared for.

Both Mac and Yamaha have built some great gear, with Mac it is to be the norm, since that has been the market niche they have striven for from their earliest days.

For the OP, try the Mac, but dollars to donuts says you will end up liking the Yammie better.

 

[RSL'67]

Look what I've started

So, as it happens - I checked out the Mac. Granted, it wasn't in my home and the speakers obviously weren't the same, etc., and while I thought it sounded really good, I passed. As I said, the unit was really beat up, and aesthetically it just wasn't "doing it" for me.

So, it's back home now to my Yamaha gear, which I still love - and perhaps - one day - I will have another opportunity to entertain a McIntosh purchase.

The 2105 had a "different" sound for sure, but to say "better" would be speculation on my part, as the conditions were so very different than what I have in my home.

Bottom line, I wouldn't not buy McIntosh because of what I've learned - if anything, this experience has piqued my interest even more.

The search for "improved" sound continues

Thanks all for participating!!
Regards,
Scott