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Yggdrasil & Audiophileo

Discussion in 'DACs' started by bokat57, Jun 18, 2017 at 9:26 PM.

  1. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    Hi Guys

    I have a Yggdrasil. I am using it with a 5 meter usb cable. Would getting a Audiophilleo improve the sound or is the Yggy usb presentation good enough without the Audiophilleo. My thoughts are with a 5 meter usb cable the Audiophilleo ( direct connection to the BNC jack ) by reclocking and optimizing the digital input would improve the sound quality.

    I am happy and satisfied with my music with the Yggy's usb implementation. However I am looking to improve my SQ if possible.

    Has anybody on this board experienced a Yggy with an Audiophilleo :

    Did it improve the SQ of the Yggy if so was it a large improvement ( night & day ) a small improvement ( not worth the cost of the Audiophilleo ) or was it somewhere in between these extremes ?

    Thanks :thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  2. enginedr

    enginedr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    nyc
     
  3. Finjima

    Finjima AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    459
    Location:
    Lake Helen Florida
    The USB implementation Schiit devised through blood sweat and tears over the years has resulted in a hard to improve USB input for the Yggy. the audiophool gear is for the low end players with the cheep implementations and cheep laptops that muss up the usb voltage. Imac's are not what they used to be, but your decware is top notch stuff. if your having issues look at the mac before messing with the yggy's side of usb, computers are often overlooked as infallible when they anything but. windows 10 finally fixed usb and added audio over usb support. I second going to head fi and ask there. but my best advise is to delete the links to above product and never look for it again.
     
  4. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    I am not having issues. As I stated in my original post I am happy and satisfied with the usb performance. I am just trying to see if I can take it to the next level. I understand your comment and I agree to some extent.

    I have read on the internet a lot of points of view ( including the digital side designer of the Yggy ) That usb is not the best interface for music. I am thinking if the audiophilleo takes that usb stream and re clocks, optimizes and converts that stream to SPDIF that might possibly improve the sound quality.

    Thanks :thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  5. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ

    Yes I will do just that.

    Thanks:thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  6. enginedr

    enginedr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    nyc
    Every one is satisfied until they hear something better . Its the ignorance is bliss factor .
    I use AOIP not USB and yes there is more SQ to be gained
     
  7. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    Yes I totally Agree ! AOIP is that ethernet ?

    Thanks:thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  8. enginedr

    enginedr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    nyc
    Yes I use a Focusrite Red Net 3 . There is some good USB chains as well . Another site to check out US audiomart fourms the OP is tubelover
     
  9. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    Yes I have heard about the Red Net 3 and did some research on it. The Red Net 3 may be in my audio future but for now I think I will try the usb to spdif converter route.

    Thanks :thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  10. gvl

    gvl Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Methinks, a shorter USB cable or whatever it takes to be able to use one, is a much better bang for you buck. Heck, I'd made sure my source sits no more than 2 feet from my DAC if I dropped almost 2.5 large on one.
     
    Alobar likes this.
  11. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    I agree. However the my room is set up I can not at this time do it like that. Another reason I am considering the Audiophilleo because I figure it will clean up the digital stream after the long cable trip.

    I can state that even with the long cable run I am happy and satisfied with the sound quality as is.

    Thanks:thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  12. Alobar

    Alobar Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco.. Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,255
    Location:
    SE Alaska
    I second getting the source off from a pc. There are many options, the one I did was to play my music library from a Raspberry pi 3. Dead quiet noise wise. The actual music files are sent to it (from my pc) via ethernet cable so the whole setup can be placed inches from the DAC that way. It really made a significant difference just getting my Modi Multibit off the pc.
     
  13. gvl

    gvl Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Even if you do this, use a short USB to Audiophilleo and long quality coax to the DAC. Unlike coax USB isn't really meant to be used at these cable lengths especially with no error correction/resend which is how audio is sent to your DAC.

    EDIT: another thought, USB 2.0 limit is 5m so you might be okay and anything you add to the chain will likely be a waste of money. If anything, I'd probably just get 2x2.5m USB cables and added a Schiit Wyrd in the middle for a peace of mind.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017 at 5:18 PM
  14. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    I have looked at the Raspberry web site before and to tell you the truth I did not understand it. If I decided to go ethernet
    I would do the Micro Rendu setup.

    Thanks :thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  15. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    According to the Audiophilleo web site they recommend using a longer usb cable and a short coaxial cable.

    As far as your 2nd comment I disagree because the audiophilleo device re clocks, processes , lowers jitter, and reduces emi interference. The Audiophilleo device connects directly to the bnc jack. After researching this device it is my understanding the device basically processes and cleans up the usb digital stream and prepares it for the dac. It does this without the need for a downstream coaxial cable. It will also convert the stream to spdif arguably a better interface musically

    My question about the Audiophilleo does it improve the SQ that much over the Yggy's usb implementation to justify the cost as stated in my original post ?

    Thanks :thumbsup:
    Bob
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017 at 10:09 PM
  16. gvl

    gvl Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Well, there is also an opinion out there that short Coax cables may actually lead to increased jitter. The main thing, of course, is that the DSP engine inside the Yggdrasil will take care of jitter as data will be buffered, processed and fed to the DAC chip on a high-precision internal clock, so all these additional gizmos may have limited effect if any at all. Wyrd also re clocks, processes , lowers jitter, and reduces emi interference, so it should help to clean up the resulting signal on a longer USB cable run.

    As for your original question, the weak link here is the 5m USB cable, and if there is any information loss due to interference or signal degradation then even Audiophilleo may not be able to recover it, that's why you need to add a buffer to compensate.

    If you're ready to drop $600-700 on it I'd look at PS Audio LANRover instead.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017 at 11:16 PM
  17. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    I understand your point. What you state makes sense. The Yggdrasil according to numerous accounts I have read does have excellent digital signal processing capability. The Audiophilleo reviews I have read have been very positive. It seems there are many conflicting ideas and solutions on the best way to bring the 0's & 1's from the computer to the dac. I have to look at these ideas and solutions and try to make the best choice based on space in my room, budget, my understanding of the overall concept of the different hardware and applications and most important a home listening trial so I can get my money back if it does not work out.


    The weak link in my system is not the usb cable, The weak link is my 60 year old ears



    I actually looked at the Lanrover I don't like the concept of it.

    Thanks:thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  18. gvl

    gvl Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    In my opinion LANRover is a much cleaner concept than some proprietary platform from an obscure vendor with custom (read buggy) multimedia software stack. Think of LANRover as an extra long USB cable that doesn't have the problems of extra long USB cables and it also breaks ground loops and doesn't let noise common on USB ports to reach the DAC, and it also comes from a vendor with good reputation in audio circles. There are others too, such as USB over Ethernet extenders from iCron, they don't cater to audiophile crowd but their devices likely work just as good.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017 at 1:04 AM
    nyhifihead likes this.
  19. bokat57

    bokat57 Active Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Little Egg Harbor NJ
    I Disagree I think Audiophilleo is a cleaner concept. It is my belief in general the less components, cables, wires, and connections you have in the audio chain the better. The Lanrover by my count has 2 components 6 connections and 3 cables. I don't know how it performs, it may be amazing but like I stated earlier Lanrover's basic concept goes against my basic audio principals.

    If the "obscure vender" your referring to ( and I must assume based on the context of this thread ) is Audiophilleo. It is a device that has been around for years and has been positively reviewed by some of the most respected reviewers online.
    On the audio forums people generally seem to like this product. On what basis do you make the accusation :
    1. That it is a "multimedia software stack"
    2. That it is "buggy"

    Thanks :thumbsup:
    Bob
     
  20. enginedr

    enginedr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    nyc
    Another option is the Mutec MC3+USB - You can go in USB and out AES
     

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