Your Favorite Vintage Sealed Box Bookshelf Speaker?

[VieuxRimbaud]

I have a pair AR TSW 210s that I purchased in 1990 and recently refoamed. I absolutely loved them then and I still do. I find it difficult to imagine a better sound at that size, but I notice that the AR TSW series is not that highly regarded on Audiokarma... I guess it's a very subjective thing, and also largely dependent on the type of music people play. I don't know if these speakers would necessarily excel at pumping out Pink Floyd at high volumes. I listen mostly to both classical and folk acoustic instrumental, piano, jazz combo, and vocal, and they excel at all... I was wondering what vintage 2-way and 3-way bookshelf speakers other people like.

 

[N8Nagel]

I haven't sampled all of them, but the EPI M100 seems to come up a lot in these discussions, and I like the ones I have in the kitchen.

 

[VieuxRimbaud]

The EPI m100s are c1970s and have much nicer cabinets than the 1990s stuff... That was probably the high-point of the sealed-box era. Although today they look pretty beat-up in pictures of them I'm seeing online. I wonder how the tweeters hold up over time. Those speakers were very carefully designed then, and I would think replacing a tweeter with something contemporary would change the sound.

 

[N8Nagel]

I have a pair of masonite tweeter 100's and have had several Genesis speakers with the later plastic tweeters, have had no problems with them. If you do have issues, capacitors are the likely culprit.

 

[VieuxRimbaud]

I have a pair of masonite tweeter 100's and have had several Genesis speakers with the later plastic tweeters, have had no problems with them. If you do have issues, capacitors are the likely culprit.

Oh, and capacitors are where? In the crossover circuitry? My tweeters are "nitrogen-fired" titanium, which some people find too bright, but I love the high-frequency detail. They never sound tiring to me.

 

[N8Nagel]

yes, in the x-over. The most basic crossover (which is what is found in the EPI M100) is a single capacitor in series with the tweeter, which is used as a high pass filter so that the tweeter is not damaged by low frequency signal. In the EPI design that IS the entire crossover as the woofer simply rolls off mechanically and the cap is chosen to roll off the tweeter at roughly the same point. What happens very commonly in vintage speakers is the crappy NPE caps originally used have increased ESR at this point in time causing the speakers to be very bass heavy. Replacing with a new NPE or film cap restores proper operation. I've never experienced this with EPIs but have noticed a distinct improvement in treble after replacing caps in other speakers.

 

[VieuxRimbaud]

Aha... very useful information.

 

[bigx5murf]

My favorite right now would be ADS L710. The only other's I've owned are AR M2, NHT super one, and NHT SB1

 

[audiojones]

...I notice that the AR TSW series is not that highly regarded on Audiokarma...

It is by me! AR TSW-610's here, pushed by an Adcom GFA-555 PRO amplifier...Heavenly! They are very sensitive to proper placement however, and when I first bought them I thought I'd made a terrible mistake because they sounded bright and thin due to improper placement. Put them near the corners toed out a bit toward the listening point and they completely changed. Been my main "go to" speakers for about 15 years now, and they aren't going anywhere.

I've been a huge AR fan all my life (grew up with AR2a speakers my dad bought new in '61) and IMO the TSW series ranks right up there with my AR3a's, AR5's, AR2ax (both generations) and any other conventional AR speaker I've ever owned. Love 'em!

 

[VieuxRimbaud]

Ahhh... lucky you, I wish I had room for a pair of those in my apartment... one thing I've found that really brings these to their full potential is to completely decouple them from any structural surface. I made my own two-layer decoupling cushions from foam and felt, and wow, what a difference it made! The sound floats in space just like you're right there in front of the performers.

It is by me! AR TSW-610's here, pushed by an Adcom GFA-555 PRO amplifier...Heavenly! They are very sensitive to proper placement however, and when I first bought them I thought I'd made a terrible mistake because they sounded bright and thin due to improper placement. Put them near the corners toed out a bit toward the listening point and they completely changed. Been my main "go to" speakers for about 15 years now, and they aren't going anywhere.

I've been a huge AR fan all my life (grew up with AR2a speakers my dad bought new in '61) and IMO the TSW series ranks right up there with my AR3a's, AR5's, AR2ax (both generations) and any other conventional AR speaker I've ever owned. Love 'em!

 

[VieuxRimbaud]

(homemade felt/foam isolating cushion: works great!)

 

[BilboBaggins]

I think mine would be Celestion Ditton 15s. I've had three pairs of these and would buy another pair in a flash for the right price. They tend to sell for about $100 a pair. I think they are worth $200 in sound quality! Keep in mind these are 4 ohm speakers and need a high current amp. Otherwise, you risk having rubbery bass and blowing your tweeters.

 

[VieuxRimbaud]

Keep in mind these are 4 ohm speakers and need a high current amp. Otherwise, you risk having rubbery bass and blowing your tweeters.

Could you elaborate a little on that, for those of us who are less knowledgeable?

 

[xero-D-hero]

I notice that the AR TSW series is not that highly regarded on Audiokarma...

It is by me! AR TSW-610's here, pushed by an Adcom GFA-555 PRO amplifier...Heavenly!

It is by me as well !

I have a pair of TSW-410 and enjoy them a whole lot.
Bought them @ Value Villiage in pretty rough shape for $7.00,and have since got them back up to snuff and working great.
Refinished the walnut tops & bottoms,NOS woofers & mids,replaced one tweeter,yadda,yadda,yadda.
And I'm using Adcom gear as well,GTP-450 preamp w/a Rotel RE-1010 EQ in the EPL and a GFA-535 Mk1 amp to drive the AR's.

I rotate those with a pair of JBL LX-44 which are very similar except for being ported vs. the AR being acoustic suspension.
But that aside both are 8" woofer 3 ways with Ti tweeters,so they're more alike than they are different.
Love both those speakers,both are definitely keepers.

Other bookshelf speakers around here: * denotes keepers
Sealed -
Advent 3002 *
Canton GL-260 *
Canton Plus S *
Celestion Ditton 110 *
Delta Labs M1 (aka: ADS L200) *
Infinity RS-125 (have'nt listened to these yet)
Realistic Minimus 7 & Minimus 7w *
Optimus Pro7AV *

Ported -
JBL 52t *
JBL LX-22 (2 pr.) *
JBL LXE-330 *
JBL MR-25 (have'nt listened to these yet)
Klipsch KSB 1.1 *
Polk R15 (have'nt listened to these yet)
Polk RT3 *

Anyhow,just some food for thought (or fodder for discussion,LOL).

Bret P.

 

[BilboBaggins]

Could you elaborate a little on that, for those of us who are less knowledgeable?

There is an excellent thread that explains much better than I could right here;
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/why-4-ohm-loads-stress-your-amplifier.60386/

The jist of it is that if you read threads about this speaker online, you will find very polar impressions of it. I believe this is because the users who think it has uncontrolled bass and harsh highs are using an amp that is best for 8 ohm speakers. Plug that same speaker pair into a Yamaha m-40, a Kenwood supreme, or some other high current amp and everything sound balanced with excellent bass!

 

[BilboBaggins]

When ever you hear distortion, you are pushing your amp too much, assuming everything is working properly. Always turn down the amp until the distortion goes away. If you want to play louder, you will need equipment that will support that volume level in that space.

 

[markshan]

I don't know if it strictly counts as a "bookshelf" speaker, but my favorite sealed smallish speaker I've owned is the B&W DM-14. It did everything well and had imaging that was nothing short of spectacular. This is followed closely by the A/D/S L-710 mentioned above (which I'm also not sure qualifies as bookshelf).

All that said, I think when most people think of vintage acoustic suspension, they think of the Advent/KLH family of speakers. I've been lucky enough to spend lots of time with KLH sixes and twenty ones, as well as Original Large Advents. At the risk of being called a heretic, I submit that the speaker of this heritage that I liked the best was the Advent 5002. It did everything that the OLA got right, and the dome tweeter was in every way superior to the venerable fried egg. I know, it was a Sparkomatic creation and not even considered a "real Advent" by purists, but it is an absolute joy to listen to. If you ever come across some cheap, don't hesitate. Same for the 4002, which was the same drivers in a smaller cabinet.

As far as smaller but not tiny bookshelves, I also will give high praise to the EPI 100. I have a quad system with a Sansui and four of those, and they do everything right. One pair I have is wood veneer and the other vinyl, so I always have my eyes open for a deal on another wooden pair.

 

[SoCal Sam]

Yamaha NS-200M. As well made as big brother 1000M. Has cast basket woofer and dome mid and tweeter with gain controls.

 

[Montycat]

I love my EPI M100s but I also think the M50 are equally worthy, considering their size of roughly 1/2 that of the 100.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

AR-4
EPI-M100
EPI -M50