Discussion in 'Turntables' started by misterjones, Jun 25, 2016.
People arent using it to clean audio components. But as a stylus cleaner.
We are talking about stylus cleaning.......I would only use magic eraser on say a bay city rollers or Eddie Arnold record to erase the music
So the oils could have been from an earlier cleaning fluid that that person might have used? Which may in fact have loosened the diamond over time? and the moongel was what pulled it loose.....just a hypothesis
Obama did it.
Ya know.....I thought the same thing.....it's more like "fake news" though
I was gonna say Obama probably didn't know anything g about vinyl....but apparently I was wrong.....he's got a denon table.....I will try to find out what he uses for a stylus cleaner
I'd like to know the story, too. How does the moongel stick to a drum head if it's oily?
And how does it stay in semi gel form without a liquid sub component? I left my sample out in open air to dry for a few days.
Someone passed on a genuine warning, I doubt they were cornering the stylus cleaning market. Take the warning for what it's worth. I personally prefer not to risk my moving coils. There are stories of cartridges failing with every form of stylus cleaning, there is always the potential of a mishap when cleaning delicate devices.
Can't argue with being over-cautious I guess.....I just see the difference in cost as a new shiny record....hope it's not my stylus' downfall
Again, I have had zero issues with the Moongel. But here is the full correspondence from a friend:
Friends Post: After reading many good comments on Moongel - the latest from Stereophile (Feb 2016, p.45), I decided to give it a go.
It does clean well - as evident from the shininess of the stylus afterwards. I could see clearly the debris on the Moongel pad. Works better than Magic Eraser, or Last by itself (without follow up with Magic Eraser). Convenient as well.
I clean my stylus after each side of play. After using Moongel for a week, my Expert Stylus paratrace diamond disappeared. Coincidence? I don't know. I've been advised by ES not to use liquid cleaner. Could it be that there is enough "liquid" - judged by its softness - in Moongel that has dissolved the glue used in attaching the diamond?
It helps to know if others have the same problem. I read of another incidence somewhere, but forgot the source. I don't want to make any conclusion from my isolated experience.
Then we went PM:
With regard to the cartridge with lost diamond, here is its background. After 10 years in use, sent to Expert Stylus for retip. Only new stylus required - everything inside in good shape according to ES. Two years later, missing diamond after using Moongel for about three weeks. Before Moongel, it had always been Last cleaner for previous 10+ years. Nothing else.
Once more sent ES the cartridge with missing stylus. Advised that inside was in very bad shape and not worth repair. His culprit was Moongel, a sample of which I also sent to him with the cartridge. This happened only within the two years after re-tip? My recording playing habits had remained the same.
So sent cartridge to Axel Schuerholz for second opinion. His diagnosis: "inside - worst case... oil everywhere" The oil reference points to Moongel as the smoking gun.
Since ES's advice not to use Moongel, I had returned to my Last solution, which ES pronounced as non-alcoholic and safe to use. His alternate advice is to use a non-alcoholic lens cleaner sprayed - not soaked - on a baby cotton swab and gently roll it from back to front of stylus without touching the cantilever. I have also tried this with good effect. Lens cleaner cost from an optical shop cost me a few bucks and last a lifetime.
Hmmm...I am sorry to hear this.
I have been using Moongel for over three years (as well as others) and have heard no bad results from anyone. With what method were you using the MoonGel?
I wonder if there is a difference in the adhesion used for the re-tip?
I will post your results on the AudioKarma forum if that is ok with you...see what others say.
What cartridge and stylus was this?
I just dipped the diamond into Moongel vertically. The cartridge was an ES retipped paratrace Shelter 901. The question of adhesive used in retip did cross my mind. But no expert in organic chemistry, I have no answer.
More on Moongel. Just read the post by andyr on this thread: http://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/114979-best-stylus-cleaner-to-get/?page=1. You can also see my reply on page 2 of the thread under the moniker ianm0.
His oily experience with his Benz Micro + Zerodust matches mine with my Shelter cartridge. Expert Stylus rendered it not worthy of throwing more money at. Eventually Axel Schurholz cleaned out all the oily stuff from the coils and I am quite happy with the outcome.
The oily build-up is in the coils, not the stylus. On the contrary, the stylus is sparkling clean after each use. I would never imagine the oily substance would creep all the way up the cantilever to the coils.
I had a habit of letting stylus to "sink" all the way into Moongel. That might have done it. Now I am using my trusted Last cleaner.
Was the cantilever of a material that was prone to liquid (oil) absorption? Was he pressing to hard into the moongel? Was this just a fluke? As the positive reviews far,far outweigh anything negative?
Also there is a law of averages or some similar law where there are going to be outside the expected norms within the manufacturing process....was his tip adhesion not up to spec?
We all have to make decisions based on the information we are. Provided. I bought moongel this week based on what I perceived as a 30 dollar savings....spread out over years I'm assuming to try this pdoduct so in essence, I took a 30 dollar gamble to save, say, 6 dollars a year with the possibility of losing a $300+ stylus within that 5 years (using a 5 year useful life formula).....some would say this was a suckers bet.....
Thanks to your sharing of this communication between yourself and your friend....it's food for thought when making this type of a decision....
Also.....the person with the problem had a Benz "wooden" cartridge......doesn't wood have the propensity to attract or draw moisture in due to its porous nature?
yes, still lots of questions left, but there is at least two reports of issues with certain styli, and MC cartridge. No issues on my SAS though, and no "wicking" of oil up the cantilever.
Its one thing to clean a $100 cartridge with the stuff, but a benji is still a decent amount of money. Think about ruining a $500 cartridge and thats a different story. When I consider the cost of my ZYX 4D and Ortofon Cadenza Red, well its not worth the risk. I will use the Zerodust and Last stylus cleaner on them. Sometimes folks can be too cheap for their own good.
Thanks for that. I've been using an Onzow for several years now without issue. I also use a Nag roller to dust the record before play. I know that these sticky polymers can become oily over time, I suspect from handling and/or the soaps used to clean them, but brand new out of the box they are not oily.
The internet is a useful tool for comparing notes, but you have to take other people's experiences with a grain of salt. Just because one person has an issue with something doesn't mean that experience is universal. I know someone who has an issue with the ME because he managed to pull the cantilever out with it. That doesn't mean that it isn't safe when used properly. In nearly 40 years of spinning vinyl I've never once had a stylus go missing, so I have to assume something else is going on here.
My issue with the ME is after use for a day, I looked under the microscope and there were pieces of the ME on the stylus. So if the ME is shedding onto the stylus, then those abrasive pieces could get on the record and cause groove damage while playing. I didn't want to take that chance, so when I saw the stickyhands thread I immediately thought of the moongel as a substitute.
Probably Trumps hair
I am going to ME first then MG to remove anything left.....that's my $10 for 10 years plan.....well see how it works out
Too fine....and possibly dandruff residue.....unless it's a "Toop".....
I have used Zerodust for a few years and it's been great. The prices now are lower and I know I will get years more out of mine.
Whether it's airborne dust or gunk remaining from a freshly cleaned record, this thing just works.
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