Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

DC300/Econowave Standard Kit w/Sealed 200L Enclosure

I have bought all the parts for the Standard Kit... the DC300s, Pyle Horns, recommended CD and crossover components...

I modeled the DC300 in a 200L closed box and it looks pretty good... -3 dB @ around 42 Hz and -10 dB at around 23 Hz...

The speakers will be used in a 12 x 26 room, but the room will be virtually divided into two spaces... an office space (12 x 14) and a lounge (12 x 12)... The listening triangle will be in this 12 x 12 space in the far corner of the room with the right speaker close to the corner and the left speaker about half way along the 26' wall... I hope this is clear...

Since the room is not going to be acoustically treated, and one speaker is going to be close to a corner, I am wondering about too much bass boom or overhang... and I am hoping that the sealed design will lead to a tamer yet tighter bass...

Music will be jazz, classic rock and some solo piano/minimalist music (Miles - Led Zep - Arvo Pärt).

Can I use the standard crossover kit (the components of which I have already bought), in a sealed enclosure, as long as I maintain recommended woofer-tweeter spacing? Any warnings or recommendations?

Thanks,
 
audiothings said:
I have bought all the parts for the Standard Kit... the DC300s, Pyle Horns, recommended CD and crossover components...

I modeled the DC300 in a 200L closed box and it looks pretty good... -3 dB @ around 42 Hz and -10 dB at around 23 Hz...

The speakers will be used in a 12 x 26 room, but the room will be virtually divided into two spaces... an office space (12 x 14) and a lounge (12 x 12)... The listening triangle will be in this 12 x 12 space in the far corner of the room with the right speaker close to the corner and the left speaker about half way along the 26' wall... I hope this is clear...

Since the room is not going to be acoustically treated, and one speaker is going to be close to a corner, I am wondering about too much bass boom or overhang... and I am hoping that the sealed design will lead to a tamer yet tighter bass...

Music will be jazz, classic rock and some solo piano/minimalist music (Miles - Led Zep - Arvo Pärt).

Can I use the standard crossover kit (the components of which I have already bought), in a sealed enclosure, as long as I maintain recommended woofer-tweeter spacing? Any warnings or recommendations?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

You will be fine in a sealed box. That's what I did.
 
foofighter said:
Gainphile... May i be that rude and ask if you could upload the .FRD files of FR graph B&C DE250-8 combined with JBL clone waveguide so i could do some xover simulations in PCD, please ???

Thank you :D
Click to expand...

It's only rude if you don't post the result :D

The only problem with my measurement is that this is not raw. I already included the 1.5khz LR2 xo and 2khz notch (which you can see about 1 or 2db too deep).

So I'm not sure how useful it is to simulate an XO. Plus I don't have the impedance measurement. (I use active xo which ignores this).
 

Attachments

  • DE250+JBLClone 200cm, 2khz notch, 1.5khz LR2.txt
    20.9 KB · Views: 37
Just poppin' in here. It's old and probably already known but I just came across a mention of our dearly departed friend and this thread over at wired.com.
 
More econowaves under construction:

drivers:

I'm just scoping out the crossovers for a mate.. the enclosures have yet to be made so I'm using a quick and dirty baffle we knocked up just for testing, as the box should effect well below the crossover:
main.php


Made some gated measurements about 2M and slightly offcentre using holmimpulse, first I used my existing econowave crossover and ran the numbers in PCD as a "sanity test".. then used the raw driver measurements from the same "session" (scaled and loaded into PCD) to play around with a variant on the Econowave crossover to work.

So far running with this set of values:
main.php


Knocked up a quick and dirty prototype crossover:
main.php


Results seem to be OK (also redid in speaker workshop):
  • black: calculated
  • red: measured
  • green: woofer
  • blue: WG + CD
main.php


* take the dB values with a grain of salt.. VERY crudely calibrated with a cheapo SPL meter.

One thing is sometimes I get slightly different results in PCD and SW.. though sometimes I get near identical. Does anyone have a "correct" PCD econwave saved session I can take a look at? I've been using a 4th order highpass, but with the extra cap and inductor set to very high values, and just using the DC resistance of the inductor to add in the 27 ohm in parallel with the HP inductor, but I suspect there may be a better way?

..more to come on this when the enclosures are done..
 
zog666 said:
One thing is sometimes I get slightly different results in PCD and SW.. though sometimes I get near identical. Does anyone have a "correct" PCD econwave saved session I can take a look at? I've been using a 4th order highpass, but with the extra cap and inductor set to very high values, and just using the DC resistance of the inductor to add in the 27 ohm in parallel with the HP inductor, but I suspect there may be a better way?
Click to expand...
Found a post that spells it out by Zilch.. of course its obvious to me now..
using this info:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showpost.php?p=1694092&postcount=1052


I've now got the PCD simulation and real world measurement matching up very close:

main.php


(black - simmed, grey - measured)
 
zog666 said:
Found a post that spells it out by Zilch.. of course its obvious to me now..
Click to expand...

Please post the CSP file for future reference. You'll probably have to convert it to plain text to do it.

I make this request on behalf of all the PCD dummies that could never figure out the crossover topology on our own. :no:

Also if anyone has worked up the 4pi or others better suited for the DE250 those would be appreciated greatly.
 
Horn Angle

How important is it to match the exit/entrance angle of compression drivers and horns ? I am deciding on a horn for the Beyma 380 and they do not list the angle on the spec sheet.Any guidance appreciated.
 
donprice said:
Please post the CSP file for future reference. You'll probably have to convert it to plain text to do it.

I make this request on behalf of all the PCD dummies that could never figure out the crossover topology on our own. :no:
Click to expand...

I'm still a PCD dummy but I'm starting to get some traction anyway..

Heres "econowave standard" PCD saved session file (see attached) - ref:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showpost.php?p=1620779&postcount=20
ZMA and FRD input files here:
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showpost.php?p=1617195&postcount=1
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showpost.php?p=1617346&postcount=5

Graph of response from PCD (I've also dropped a resistor in parallel with the d220 attenuate HF output like an LPAD)
main.php


I actually started off with the more complex Econowave SR compact as an example but couldnt get it it play right.. either I messed up or there is a typo in there?
 

Attachments

  • ewave_standard_PCD_example.csp.txt
    869 bytes · Views: 8
This may be of interest, my eWave *with* foam

odWmA.jpg


The foam causes attenuation of -2db.

blue: original
black: with foam insert
A1cE3.png


The attenuation is quite uniform, as shown by compensated graph below. It tracks very identical to no-foam. So this is good. Only in extreme highs that it deviates.

blue: original
black: with foam insert and +2 db.
2ozz6.png


The changes to the sound is subjectively subtle, and that is consistent with the above plots. I thought horn coloration is reduced, but at the expense of airy-ness. It's a good tradeoff. Is it a must? definitely not but I got them cheap.
 
gainphile said:
This may be of interest, my eWave *with* foam

The changes to the sound is subjectively subtle, and that is consistent with the above plots. I thought horn coloration is reduced, but at the expense of airy-ness. It's a good tradeoff. Is it a must? definitely not but I got them cheap.
Click to expand...

Great info! Thanks. Could we get a pic of the backside of the foam, and a description of it? Is that the same foam I saw somewhere else for waveguides?
 
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