Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Zilch, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    I can't really find a photo for either of the 2 JackGiff crossovers ( previously displayed ) showing them as assembled , but here's the next best thing.
    - It's an early Zilch crossover / though it's clearly a simple evolution of the standard JackGiff type ( which preceded it by a couple of years ) .
    - While a few of the component parts are different, this network uses the exact same layout ( topology ) / so use it as a "guideline" ( as to how to layout & then wire-up your network ).

    - Just change the parts values to match whatever JackGiff crossover you decide to use .

    [​IMG]

    :)

    PS; I recommend that you create your own shopping list which is called a Bill of Materials ( BOM ),
    > along the lines of the following ( created by Zilch in 2010, for the network displayed within this post ).

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2017
  2. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    11,655
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
  3. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    11,655
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    That is a lot better than what I posted Earl.
     
  4. Maxdd

    Maxdd New Member

    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Jersey
    I have the parts for an eWave deluxe and plan on building a custom enclosure in lieu of the 'ol PE trap cab that Zilch used to test & design.

    Schumacher 1.1.JPG

    Without the restriction of having to use the PE trap cab, I'm free to build something that can pull more bass from the 3012LF. Awhile back I had access to BB6P and ran a few numbers. BB6P suggests tuning 3012LFs to ~33 Hz in 4 cuft with a rectangular vent 4.516" square (or equivalent area) with a duct length of 8.19", which give F3 = 59.5 Hz and F6 = 33 Hz.

    Question for the thread is do I need to design my box around a 17" wide front baffle like the trap cab or does that not matter as much as I have been lead to believe?
     
  5. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    A 4 cu' box is larger than the Vas of that driver ( generally, a good recipe for ripping apart your woofer under full drive conditions ) .

    IOW, that size box gives an incredibly under-damped woofer/box alignment .

    Eminence themselves don't offer a recommended box size larger than 2.5 cu' ( in their Box Recommendations Sheet .

    It's dangerous territory to think you know better!

    I think that you need to download WinISD Pro and play around with different enclosure sizes so that you can educate your-self about the trade-offs inherent in box-design.

    Regarding your original question;
    - In your case I don't think it'll matter much because the design you are drawing from was never fully-baked ( or tweaked ).
    - To the best of my knowledge, Zilch ( in that thread ) only built one of each model to see if the crossover acted as the PCD prediction suggested it would.
    - ie ; To my way of thinking, that thread was mostly about crossover design, not about producing finalized designs for the masses .
    - Yes a narrower baffle will produce less bass ( due to baffle size ) and needs the crossover tweaked to account for the different BSC figure ( that means a larger Inductor Coil in the woofer section of the network ).
    - That tweaking is not something that someone can do for you ( as a prediction ) / you'll need to determine this for yourself .

    :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  6. Katalyst

    Katalyst Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    I believe Zilch imparted to the audio community the knowledge and practices to figure it out for ourselves. Yes there are proven systems through out this legendary thread. Pick one and follow the recipe. When you deviate from the recipe you are cooking to you own tastes. There are many followers of this thread that will help you. The practices and tools mentioned are for you to use as you choose. The journey and discovery along the way is part of the fun. Later days and better ways. Good luck on you adventure.
     
  7. Vladi

    Vladi New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Thank you all so much for your help. I already ordered components for first scheme. And I have one question- in crossover Lowpass filter 1,2 kHz and Highpass filter 3kHz. How it works?
     

    Attached Files:

    turnitdown likes this.
  8. Katalyst

    Katalyst Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Cross overs have slopes. The dip between 1.2khz and 3khz is not a bad thing. The "shout" some speakers have is in that area.
     
  9. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    The ( above ) underscored values are only for the electrical filters.

    They're not the final result.

    The actual acoustic crossover point is more like 1800hz ( when the real-world response of both drivers gets married to the electrical filters ) ..

    :)
     
  10. Vladi

    Vladi New Member

    Messages:
    25
    I have a problem-I can not adjust the vent.
    1 picture without tube
    2 picture with max length
    3 picture with mid length
    What can I do in my situation?
     

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  11. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Actually, you can still adjust the length of the vent by doing your adjustments on the outside of the box.

    A tuned port also works outside the box ( just like a beer-bottle neck/mouth when blown across ).

    Just ( temporarily ) have the tube on the outside of the vent.

    Tune for best in room frequency response, by varying the length of the vent.

    When you are happy with the results, put the ( found length of ) vent on the inside of the box ( the error doing it this way is only a couple of hz ).

    :)
     
  12. Vladi

    Vladi New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Yes, I understand this all, but I am not satisfied with the result. Without tube is best result, but it's not good too and too far to be perfect.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  13. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    What exactly, are you not satisfied with ?
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  14. Vladi

    Vladi New Member

    Messages:
    25
    peaks in the graph should be the same. Or I'm wrong?
     
  15. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    318
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Here's some ancient Altec guidance ;

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Your DATs traces would indicate that you are trying to use too small a port ( according to Altec wisdom ).

    Go to a bigger diameter tube .

    On the other hand, if you can live with the bass produced from the higher box tuning ( seen in your first pic ), it's not that bad a ( visual ) compromise (IMO).

    What does the "in-room" bass response actually sound like ? ( that's the actual priority here )

    :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2017
  16. Vladi

    Vladi New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Many thanks for useful files. As I understand it, I have a small diameter port. Now I have a 117mm. I will try to establish the 143 or 159 mm
     
  17. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    11,655
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Starting a new project. Just picked up a pair of Altec Madrid cabs, now looking for woofers and that will dictate the size horn I use.
     
  18. phansen39

    phansen39 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    224
    Location:
    Northern IL
    You gonna knock out the entire baffle?
     
  19. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    11,655
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    The front baffle come out. So I'll replace it depending on driver/horn size
     
  20. Katalyst

    Katalyst Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    This will be interesting.
     

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