Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Zilch, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    The only other econo cd I want to experiment with is the Dayton D250P - unless of course, someone has worked that up already. It appears some have done a straight swap with the B&C but...
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
  3. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Yes, good link. I got those from Wired who can be contacted right here on AK. I'll be buying more after the holidays.
     
    wiredbecker likes this.
  4. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,782
    Location:
    KC MO
    For a total understanding of the E wave you must look on the Parts Express forum for Zilches last work with the PCD program along with help from that programs creator. It led to the "Deluxe" version of the cross over which had the compensation built in, without the obvious filter on the High Frequency unit. It concerned mainly the 152 waveguide and DE 250. I can recommend it absolutely!
    Russellc
     
    safebet and turnitdown like this.
  5. 300Z

    300Z Leo

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Recife, Brazil.
  6. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,782
    Location:
    KC MO
    That's it, also of interest is Zilches earlier works on Lansing Heritage forums, "Down and Dirty 4430" and the "Babies" threads are the mothership of Econowave. See also the giant firestorm I touched off with Earl Geddes on DIY....no one believed the little horn top could perform so well. Zilch stepped in, as well as others and convinced Geddes to test the result with his advanced equipment. Zilch sent him the stuff to test, and to his great credit Geddes thoroughly tested the e wave....It performed just as Zilch knew it would.

    E wave grew and grew, not just the bunches of pairs documented here, but basically world wide!

    Zilches idea let everyone get in on the act for very little money, getting results he would refer to as "stupid good." From there he took it to fancier drivers, bigger drivers, smaller drivers, helper woofer setups, etc. Quite the legacy. Fun times.

    Russellc
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    You're all great and I appreciate your presence here.

    Yes sir - I have worked those up, just waiting to build cabinets. I have also read "Test your PCD Mettle" and both thread Q&D 4430 threads on LHF.

    That all lead me to acquire, over time, eight LE14As, a pair of 2234s, four LE10s, two 2426s on 2344s, two 2417s on 2342s, two 2404s on baby cheeks, a pair of econowave standard tops and a pair of deluxe tops. I just finished putting the standard tops over LE14s.

    The plan is to, first, build dual LE14s under the 2344s, then dual LE10s under the deluxe tops, all 4435 style. Cut into my last build and sub in the 2342s, and sub in the LE14H-1s that are on their way to me. I'll be building all the appropriate crossovers and will test and tune them. This will take all year with my schedule - but I hope I can come here and ask questions along the way.

    DE250.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  8. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,782
    Location:
    KC MO
    I began my whole thing researching a diy 4430 monitor. I had all the JBL Drivers, and still have a pair of NOS 2344 but cheek horns, still in the box.

    I found the Down and Dirty 4430 articles by Zilch, as well as his 4430 crossover clone pieces. I followed him over to the AK Ewave thread, and there you have it.

    My current E wave is basically a 4430 clone, box size, tuning, woofer and woofer crossover + zobel network.

    Top is a deluxe E wave crossover, tuned to match the bass half, with DE 250 and the QSL wave guide..QSE, whatever it is. While the 2344 horns were nice, the cheaper version is every bit as good.

    They shine driven by the DIY Pass Class A amplification, which I recommend to all E wavers!

    Russellc
     
    turnitdown and 300Z like this.
  9. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Russell, I remember your presence in the beginning stages of Econowave. By all indications (my notes, dates of joining forums) I have been building these things for years too. The Deluxe top is a marvel of simplicity and sounds really, really good. I got all the "cheeky" bi-radials because, as good as the econowave variants i have built sound, I'm addicted to the big dispersion the cheeks provide. I'm usually moving around when listening and with the cheeks, I'm never out of the pattern, vertically or horizontally, in a big room.

    After I build the projects that I listed above, the pinnacle will be 4435s.
     
  10. Russellc

    Russellc AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,782
    Location:
    KC MO
    Yes, I was E wave #4. It's been a been a while, I can't remember if the butt cheeks are constant directivity or not, I believe they were. The original JBL wave guides used in Econowave were, as are the later used QSL units.
    Visitors are amazed at the way image stays good way off center. This is what constant directivity is about! Edges around speaker boxes don't effect imaging like they do with standard type speakers using dome tweets.

    JBL did a ton of research in this area, the 4430 family of monitors were sussed out way beyond the call of duty.

    When he came out with the Down and Dirty thread, the old guard at Lansing Heritage sight were pissed off deluxe at Zilches "insolence " and disrepect...such a likeable guy...they finally compromised and that began the "DIY" forum on Lansing Heritage...Zilch was a smart cookie and knew which giants shoulders to ride on, and unselfishly shared with us heathens.

    Russellc
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
    turnitdown, John James and drtool like this.
  11. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    I followed all those threads closely and, obviously, still do. I have read almost every (yes, every) thread on LHF and recall all of what you are referring to.

    I have 4500 words (24 pages) of notes just on THIS computer - the same or more on another that I was using back when I joined. It is still in service as my digital audio and video content device. I want to merge the two documents and see what I have, but it appears to be the basis for a primer for speaker builds - albeit in shorthand. It is dynamic though. In other words, for instance, when I get another piece of test equipment it changes the game and adds to my knowledge base and the number of notes - and sadly, leads me to another project idea.

    The bi-radial cheeks hold pattern almost all the way out to the tested (by JBL) extremes, you're right.

    My first E waves were the standard top over a JBL 2226 which led to 4 Pi. I just kept kicking it up a notch. By the time I finish my 4435s I will have 6 pair of impressive speakers and not enough rooms in which to use them all. HAHA. First world problem. And you can never get your money back out of them - it's a "custom" speaker and shipping is ridiculous now.

    BUT, it's a fun hobby and I really enjoy all the builds.

    Zilch was a one-of-a-kind. I miss his constant curiosity and the heart of a teacher. That said, there are many others on here currently that use their own precious time to help us out, verify our findings or gently steer us back on the correct path. I could name many, but won't for fear of leaving someone out.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. Amcrebelfan

    Amcrebelfan Super Member

    Messages:
    3,286
    Location:
    Loves Park, IL
    I built the OLA ewaves way back, curious if there is a drop in woofer that will replace original advent?
    Thanks
     
  13. wiredbecker

    wiredbecker AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,825
    Location:
    Albany Landfill, CA
    It's been a while but I'm pretty sure that Zilch used a pair of 12" Dayton DC300 in a pair of my Chamfered Large Advent speakers--no changes needed to the standard Econowave crossover.
     
    turnitdown likes this.
  14. Amcrebelfan

    Amcrebelfan Super Member

    Messages:
    3,286
    Location:
    Loves Park, IL
    Chamfered???
     
  15. wiredbecker

    wiredbecker AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,825
    Location:
    Albany Landfill, CA
    Yep, Chamfered. This is an example of a Chamfer-edged OLA:

    [​IMG]

    As opposed to my personal favorite, the Bullnose OLA:

    [​IMG]
     
    Hipocrates likes this.
  16. 4343

    4343 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,113
    I found a pair of the chamfered ones a while back. One was not in very good shape, veneer peeling, corners swelling, while the other was pretty nice. Was in the middle of building them up with the "odd" shaped horn that I had bought back when Zilch was experimenting with it, and custom PC boards I made that eliminated the space for the big inductor. (The stock one is just bolted to the inside of the box, so I decided to leave it where it was and just bring the wires over to the board.) Worked out great as I had scrap pieces of sensitized board that were too small to make a full size board anyway.

    Anyway, my brother came by and I was showing him the finished one, and another project using the 6X12 waveguide that also had just one working. Next thing I know we are loading all four boxes into his little car...

    A month later he calls me up and says they're all finished, so I go up to look at them. Nice!
    One pair painted red, the other blue, and nice grilles to boot. I'm going to ask him if he needs a center soon, I found a Quadraflex at Urban Ore that now has a 6X12 in it that all the plastic veneer peeled off of...
     
    wiredbecker likes this.

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    4343 pictures of the "painted ladies" please.
     
    turnitdown likes this.
  18. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    Bump for my favorite thread
     
  19. Amcrebelfan

    Amcrebelfan Super Member

    Messages:
    3,286
    Location:
    Loves Park, IL
    I still haven't engraved mine, do you remember what number mine are please?
     
  20. djnagle

    djnagle Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    11,906
    Location:
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    I think the serial numbers are on the first page.
     

Share This Page