Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Zilch, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    My build is progressing, but I have a couple more questions. Is it important that the compression driver be supported? I can understand it for PA use if the cab is moved and thrown around a lot but wondering for home use and moved carefully? Has anyone calculated the volume displacement of the Selenium D220Ti w/ JBL waveguide #338800-001?
     

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  2. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    I wouldn't bother supporting the H6512 ( waveguide ) for home usage.

    To the best of my knowledge ( in 10 years of eWaving here at AK ) there's never been a case ( for it ) made public by someone complaining about a broken horn.

    Usually the volume occupied by the drivers + horn is offset by the virtual increase ( of box volume ) when standard stuffing ( 1"-2" fiberglass or equivalent ) is added to the insides of the enclosure.
    ( ie; I wouldn't spin your wheels on that question much at all )

    Anyways, looking good !

    :)
     
  3. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.

    No matter what the cost, I wouldn't buy anything like this piece from a retailer who won't/can't publish meaningful specs ( and the ones that are published are a gross exaggeration ).

    700 watts ??? Ya, right!

    Wanna buy a Bridge ??

    :)
     
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  4. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    OK, thanks. I need to add the ports and want to get them tuned right the first time since I am calculating the diameter using the 1.25" thickness of the baffle as the length so no pipe will be used.
     
  5. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    On TMC's website, they show this driver handling 120Watts Continuous......

    TMC Website link to MB-DE250P

    Also, Parts Express sells the B&C driver on eBay for $106.90 US and shows they ship to Australia.

    B&C DE250-8
     
  6. Mazza

    Mazza New Member

    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    Australia
    Gents,
    Many thanks for your replies, so great that this thread lives on.

    My desire to get the DE250 is that its used in a lot of published designs (here and Hifi Circuit and others) which then allows me to experiment. Plus it gets such consistently great write ups. I want its sound.

    Djnangle, your offer is very generous. I'm pretty sure that Parts Express has competive shipping given their volumes and would be hard to beat. I'll look up the cost from NM to Aus and check however. Thank you!

    Techuhn, yes the B&E DE250 is available for about $100 US, but costs $90 US a piece to ship. For two that makes it just under $500 AUD to land. Cry.

    Earl, yes I'm not that flush with cash that I want to try a driver without specs and some plots. But the price of the MB Acoustics DE250P sure is right (free shipping helps) and it looks real pretty. Perhaps I'm naïve but I'd assume if its manufactured in the USA its a quality product. That's always been my experience for what its worth. Free shipping means I can land a pair in Aus for about $200 AUD. I vote a US Ewave patriot buys them and publishes their findings here! :idea:

    Regarding the clone options I have some questions:
    1. The clones discussion you mention Gary I have read a few times. My take away is that the only really interchangeable clone is the Denovo DNA-360. All the others measure too differently and would require a crossover rework? I'd really like to get the Denovo but it seems to be out of stock now for 6 months?
    2. The Dayton Audio D250P gets some rather poor coverage for its manufacturing quality and measured distortion, it was high on my list until I read Earl's findings. Has anything changed in relation to this drivers suitability?
    3. The PRV Audio D290P doesn't seem to have been tested here, I'm not sure that makes it a candidate, because as I understand matters the crossovers really need to be tailored to the horn and driver combo? I'm not really at that skill level yet. Has anyone else tried this and has the crossover been published that I can work from?
    4. Earl I notice you recommend the Celestion CDX1-1746 here. I can purchase this in Aus for $120. Unfortunately you don't mention which crossover to use with this driver. Can I use this interchangeably with any of the Econowave versions?
    Thanks again. Any help highly appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018

     

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  7. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Re: about MB Acoustics being US made
    I do believe that you are naive in believing that what the seller states in their eBay ad ( is what you think they mean ).

    All these drivers ( & their parts ) are now manufactured in China ( fwiw ).

    Anyone who knows US trade law can covertly claim that a product is US made by simply assembling ( in the US ) Chinese sourced parts .

    Re: Celestion Availibilty in Australia
    - You'd be silly to not buy local at that quoted price.
    - You are correct to state that there is no recommended network ( already designed ) for use with a CDX1-1746 ( just like there isn't for the de250 mounted on the H6512 waveguide ).
    - The CDX1-1746 is functionally much closer to being a de250 than it is to a Selenium d220Ti ( so should be used accordingly on waveguides that have previously been mated to a de250 ) .
    - I have CDX1-1745's & CDX1-1747 ( the CDX1-1747 having the harder polyimide diaphragm such as the de250 sports > which makes those 2 an even closer match )

    [​IMG]

    - The B&C de250 was typically used on the QSC 152i waveguide ( which is no longer available / though P.E. is blowing out some clones made by B52 )
    - Zilch never published a network design for the de250 on the H6512 ( ie; the JBL waveguide #338800-001 ).

    FYI, Celestion drivers are used within QSC K122, K12, K8 speakers ( which all sound excellent btw ) .
    - DIYSG has also started to use them .


    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  8. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    Here is TMC Electronics response to my email"

    Hi there,

    Can you please provide more information on your DE250P and DE250TN compression drivers? Where are the components made? Where assembled? Do you have any frequency response graphs? Thank you!

    Tom Kuhn
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hello Tom,

    These drivers are made in Taiwan and assembled here. There should be specs on the website.
    The TN will cover a slightly higher frequency than the polyimide coils.

    Let us know if you have any other questions.

    Best, Ramiro

    TMC Electronics Corp.
    10838 NW 27 st
    Doral, FL 33172- USA
    Tel: 1-305-639-9899
    Fax:1-305-639-9897

    e-mail:rjeancarlo@hotmail.com
    website: www.tmcelectronics.com
     
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  9. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    OK, I finished one of my Norman Lab 10 Econowave conversions. Initial impression is that the sound is so much more balanced, dynamic, and detailed. The bass is less boomy/flabby which is good. It doesn't have the low extension either, but I expected that from a pro audio driver with an F3 of 52Hz. I built the generic crossover for woofer with greater than 95db efficiency and it seems just right. The L-pad is right in the center. Now I have to build the other speaker too. I didn't want to order all the parts until I knew whether I liked it. I'll take some measurements after everything breaks-in and I learn how to use my UMIK-1 and REW software. Very pleased so far!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
  10. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Nice! Looks Great!

    [​IMG]

    It's wonderful to see a new eWave like yours gracing these pages.

    Congratulations!

    :)
     
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  11. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Very nice tekuhn. You have four woofers left over from the Normans right? Four subwoofers could be made with the "leftovers" to add the lower bass. Yes I have been called an enabler .
     
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  12. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,807
    HOT.
     
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  13. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    LOL- I can see why! That's a very interesting idea. I had planned on offering the complete driver set and xovers on eBay. There's probably someone out there who'd like to keep theirs stock and needs the spares. Either way, there's more than likely a sub in the future for these, but right now I am totally enjoying what I'm hearing from just a single cab. I can't believe how well they "project" for lack of a better word. This is absolutely what I was looking for. Amazing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2018
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  14. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Just wait till you get the second one to complete the "rendition zone" .Then the imaging will open fully. Another vintage speaker eWaved.
     
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  15. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,870
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    That is a GREAT looking speaker. I know it sounds good too. So, what are you day-dreaming as your NEXT one? hahahaha
     
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  16. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

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    Over four million views and 16,536 responses. Good on y'all.
     
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  17. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    I know you're right - can't wait! These were so muffled sounding before, whereas the eWaved version sounds so real. Things like a well recorded snare drum or cymbal has real dynamics to it now... The remaining parts are ordered and I'm working to have the cabinet ready for them as soon as they arrive.
     
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  18. tekuhn

    tekuhn Active Member

    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    East Texas
    Thank you - I think it looks pretty awesome too. Very reminiscent of a vintage Klipsch with the walnut contrasting the black baffle and components.

    I'd love to build a pair to replace my current home theater Left/Right mains. I'm running the Joe D'Appolito/Audax home theater system that I built about 15 years ago. They sound "fine", but have never captivated me. That's why I approached this project with caution and only built one unit until I could hear the results. I'm sold on horns now - there's no going back.
     
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  19. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,870
    Location:
    Tallahassee, FL
    That is the magic of Constant Directivity. There isn't a dome tweeter in the house here.
     
  20. donprice

    donprice Wound up workin' at a gas station.... Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,336
    I like the look. You are hooked. You will really enjoy them once you get the subwoofers up and running :thumbsup:
     

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