Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Zilch, Feb 23, 2008.

  1. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Looking forward to the pictures.
     
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  2. Steve Smiley

    Steve Smiley AK Subscriber Subscriber

    New cabinet bracing. I was surprised how flimsy the Mach Three cabinet was, although it was stil l better than some I've seen: Cab Bracing.jpg

    New baffles cut- new baffle EWG.jpg

    Great Xover, thanks Wiredbecker, made the job a snap. You'll note that the larger air -core inductor was bigger than the original for which the board was designed. I improvised a little, and put a little hot melt glue around the jumpers on the board so there was no unintended touching (interaction), Xover big coils.jpg

    All the internals installed, and I used egg crate foam from the University surplus store I got cheap, continuing with the econo theme: EWG internals.jpg

    Rear mounting the woofer, I used storm window clips from the Home Depot. They worked quite well and I avoided driving a screw through the round over I put around the woofer cut out. The ports ended up 5.25 inches long ( 2 inch ports) with a cabinet volume of 2.7 cubic ft., tuned to 30 hz: Storm Clips for woofer.jpg

    And here is the final product! Glam Shot EWG.jpg

    I was so excited to listen, I didn't bother cleaning up mu listening space, boxes everywhere! Listening EWG.jpg

    And one final shot for Wiredbecker! Rumor has it, it all comes down tomorrow! Merry Xmas! EWG Xmas.jpg
     
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  3. Steve Smiley

    Steve Smiley AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Thank you for your understanding of the scattered about pictures. I need to learn the best way to post pictures...
     
  4. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

    Messages:
    28,280
    Location:
    Eastern Bamastan
    Listening to my Advent 2 Econowaves now, they continue to delight and suprize.
     
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  5. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Nice use of those.
     
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  6. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
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    THIS! This is what it's all about. New discovery from a vetted plan. You will learn many things along the way if you choose to. It's all about introducing people to constant directivity and leading them, through example, to the ability to to expand their knowledge. Anecdotally, it has lead me to 6 sets of varying degrees of CD builds.

    Welcome to the club. It is rarefied air when you hear what they can do...AND, can build them yourself
     
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  7. Mazza

    Mazza New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Australia
    Great job, I cried a little inside to see those Mach's get the chop! I love RS or Tandy as it was known in Aus.

    Sorry if I missed this but where to get the crossover boards please?
     
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  8. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    You'd cry hearing them in their new state. I am chopping a pair of perfect original advents (one owner) because that's how good the improvement is.

    wiredbecker for the boards
     
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  9. Steve Smiley

    Steve Smiley AK Subscriber Subscriber

    I hear you Mazza, I’m a RS fan myself. I have a few pair, including Optimus 7 that are quite nice. My plan is to take the drivers from the Mach Three and put them in this old RCA Victor cabinets I picked up. See the post a bit earlier in this thread. Well, now that I got to hear my new EWave, maybe that will become of the Victor cabs. Mazza, love your ewaves, well done.
     
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  10. Steve Smiley

    Steve Smiley AK Subscriber Subscriber

    And thank you Turnitdown, it has been continued great learning. I’m excited for the next project, and lots more listening!
     
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  11. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

    Messages:
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    I'm a pretty old guy, and this thread from Zilch breathed new life into a guy who has been in some great/renowned recording studios. My 4430s are cherished, but NOW I can build them exactly, but only with the knowledge I got here.

    Be brave to experiment. The test equipment is cheap. Learn enough to teach.
     

     

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  12. Mazza

    Mazza New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Australia
    I used to visit my local Tandy (RS) as a kid and lust after the Mach series and the STA receivers. I think this was the genesis of my addiction. I've done the Zilch treatment to Minimus 7's and 77's and these sound properly awesome.

    I'm inspired by the flex your mettle thread to get a proper mic and do as turnitdown says, learn enough to teach.

    Actually I'd like to do some Econowave-Aussies, by using the JBL clone waveguide and substitute in drivers that are available cheaply in Aus. Measure these and post suggested crossover variants that will accommodate. The problem is that postage kills the econo-equation for us peeps outside of the USA, Aus particularly.
     
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  13. turnitdown

    turnitdown Well-worn member Subscriber

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    There are people on your continent who have done the Ewave. They have found a way.
     
  14. donprice

    donprice Wound up workin' at a gas station.... Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,559
    Be careful. Further sonic improvement is incremental but the cost increase is somewhat exponential. I've built 5-6 pairs and a single. One went through 3 15" woofers and 2 CD/waveguides..the single went through 2 woofers and 3 CD/waveguides. The last build sort of counts as econo since the M2 parts were a good bit cheaper than buying the real thing. I also have two more pair in the garage that need to be completed (pairs 6 & 7?) though I have no where to put them.
     
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  15. Steve Smiley

    Steve Smiley AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Thank you donprice, for the word of caution. My wife thanks you as well!

    I think I will listen to these Ewaves for a while and get to know them better. If I'm going to dig deeper into this I want to learn what I like and don't like so I don't waste effort and funds that don't add value for me. I keep telling myself to trust my ears! One problem with that is I've lost a ton of my ability to hear the upper octaves, especially on my right side. I owe that loss to a Black Flag concert in the basement of a local bar when I was at Michigan State. My ears rang for a week and now this is what I have left.

    In the meantime, I will sit at the workbench and finish all my other started, but not complete, projects. I think I need to prep for a spring garage sale - empty out some space and build up the kitty for future projects!
     
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  16. Mazza

    Mazza New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Australia
    LOL! :banana:Too late sorry Don, besides my addiction contributes to my knowledge and enjoyment, could be worse and love boats, drugs right? That's what I tell my missus anyhow.

    So would someone tell me I'm being silly please? I like bass monsters (KG 5.5's are at fault) and those Dayton DC250-8 10" Classic Woofer model nice...

    upload_2019-1-27_22-10-7.png


    So I grabbed Zilch's SR Compact FRD and ZMA files and the same for the DC250-8 from Parts Express, banged them into XSim and came up with the following 2.5 way design....

    upload_2019-1-27_22-25-41.png


    My approach was:
    1. watch this nice video by the gent that designed the DIYSG 1099.
    2. use the great "how to design crossovers without measurement" thread to determine starting values; then
    3. tweak to pleasure!

    XSim file attached (thanks EarlK), just need to remove the ".txt" text in the file name to load into XSim which I had to add to upload here.
    Calling all Econo-Trolls, let me have it please! :whip:
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  17. EarlK

    EarlK Well-Known Member

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    Mazza.

    If you'd like some help with this please post your XSim file.

    I feel you have a bunch of redundant parts that could be eliminated.

    Zip it first ( also, you don't need to include individual frd or zma files since they're embedded in the actual .dxo file.


    :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2019
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  18. Mazza

    Mazza New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Australia
    Thanks EarlK, now added to my previous post.

    Thanks Steve, too kind. The feeling is mutual, your back mounted woofer looks a treat!
     
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  19. grundigger

    grundigger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    675
    Location:
    South Austin
    I haven't been on here in a long time. My Econowave setup is a pair of repurposed Large Advents with their original woofers (foam replaced). The compression drivers are Dayton D250P-8 polyamides with Dayton's H6512 6.5" waveguides mounted on them.

    I'm back because I would like to take things up a notch or three. My Econowaves sound better to me than my $3k Omega Super Alnico high output monitors, which breaks my heart, but at least I can 'fess up to it. I listen to the Omegas every night in my bedroom before going to sleep. They really are excellent speakers in their own right, but they just don't have the "weight" and dynamics of the Econowaves. The Omegas are neutral--to a fault. :no: There's something about the two-way horn tonal character that I prefer overall. Aside from dynamics, I really don't know what it is about them that I like so much.

    Anyhow, there's a point to this blathering: What is the consensus for the best possible version of the Econowave design? I finally have the space and tools to build an enclosure from scratch and I wouldn't mind going big. I'd like to maintain the "purity" of the current sound, but I'd like to have "more" of it. Which drivers, enclosure, crossovers (done the miniDSP thang, no longer interested in that)? Would I maybe be better off buying a pair of GPA 604-8H-IIIs instead?
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
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  20. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    822
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Good of you to admit that. Will you be using a sub? Space and height restrictions?
     

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