Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Build either the Econowave Standard or the Deluxe ( if you source the 152i waveguide or a clone ).

This surplus horn ( click the pic for the link ) is close-enough to the original QSC.



Details are all in the following thread ( click the pic );



:)
Wow....thanks! I thought sure that waveguide was long gone. How does it compare with the standard Econowave guide. Better dispersion? Thanks again.
 
Wow....thanks! I thought sure that waveguide was long gone. How does it compare with the standard Econowave guide. Better dispersion? Thanks again.

Both waveguide types are so inexpensive that I recommend owning both models ( & then figure out which one is most the suitable for the current project ).

I suspect that the JBL clone has wider ( more even coverage // polars ) > though quite likely at the expense of a slightly rougher response ( I don't own any 220Ti Selenium drivers so it's hard to say any more ).

Both these waveguides have stood the test of time ( which I really feel is worth pointing out ).

Obviously a larger waveguide/horn will support a lower crossover point ( for those users interested in "rolling-their-own" with a 15" woofer ).

E
 
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Both waveguide types are so inexpensive that I recommend owning both models ( & then figure out which one is most the suitable for the current project ).

I suspect that the JBL clone has wider ( more even coverage // polars ) > though quite likely at the expense of a slightly rougher response ( I don't own any 220Ti Selenium drivers so it's hard to say any more ).

Both these waveguides have stood the test of time ( which I really feel is worth pointing out ).

Obviously a larger waveguide/horn will support a lower crossover point ( for those users interested in "rolling-their-own" with a 15" woofer ).

E
Is the B&C 250 straight swap for the 220Ti in either waveguide?
 
Is the B&C 250 straight swap for the 220Ti in either waveguide?


No, the de250 vs the 220Ti need different EQs to sound their best ( due to those 2 drivers each having a different impedance curve and different basic response ).
OTOH, one might get away using the same generic 220Ti HiPass circuit with a 220Ti on either the H6512 or 152i Clone wave-guide.

IOW, one might still get good results when substituting the 152i clone guide in place of the H6512 guide while using the 220Ti driver.
- The most important criteria being the crossover was originally designed for the driver being used.

:)
 
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Are the B52 (QSC clone) or the Dayton (JBL clone) interchangeable with the SEOS12 without affecting too much SQ??

I have a couple Celestion 1746 (same as 1745 but with bolt-on, which is similar to B&C DE250, which is similar to Denovo DNA-360) and I am placing an order for the B52 In an effort to build a couple of Econowave Deluxe with Eminence Deltalite 2512, but it would be great to have other designs available (those with SEOS12)

Regards!
 
Are the B52 (QSC clone) or the Dayton (JBL clone) interchangeable with the SEOS12 without affecting too much SQ??

I have a couple Celestion 1746 (same as 1745 but with bolt-on, which is similar to B&C DE250, which is similar to Denovo DNA-360) and I am placing an order for the B52 In an effort to build a couple of Econowave Deluxe with Eminence Deltalite 2512, but it would be great to have other designs available (those with SEOS12)

Regards!

I don't own any SEOS waveguides to be able to give you a definitive answer.

I'll get you a link ( or two ) for you to study ( for a different driver ) so you can arrive at your own conclusions.

SEOS15Horiz_expanded_.png


Above is Bills original study of a raw de250 on a SEOS 15.
- It's obvious to these eyes that it's losing loading below @ 2K.

Here's a Tymphany/Peerless DFM-2535 on a 152i clone;

fetch


It maintains LF loading much more gracefully than the same driver on a SEOS15 ( see below ).

fetch


The bumps you see ( over 2K ) ultimately play into the final crossover since the designer invariably tries to minimize them.

:)
 
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I don't own any SEOS waveguides to be able to give you a definitive answer.

I'll get you a link ( or two ) for you to study ( for a different driver ) so you can arrive at your own conclusions.

SEOS15Horiz_expanded_.png


Above is Bills original study of a raw de250 on a SEOS 15.
- It's obvious to these eyes it's losing loading below @ 2K.

Here's a Tymphany/Peerless DFM-2535 on a 152i clone;

fetch


It maintains LF loading much more gracefully than the same driver on a SEOS15 ( see below ).

fetch


The bumps you see ( over 2K ) ultimately play into the final crossover since the designer invariably tries to minimize them.

:)
Thanks Earl. That was going to be my next question. How does the QSC clone compare to the SEOS? Those graphs are very interesting!
 
EarlK thanks for your info! Very insightful!

I think the answer to my question is... go try it then!

I'm thinking a little mix between Billwaslo SEOS12 plus Delta 12A and the Econowave Deluxe ... using Celestion CDX-1 1746, QSC clone and Delta 12A which is a lot cheaper than the Deltalite 2512 or the Kappalite 3012LF.

Weird this combination hasn't been used before, as each of the parts are "cheap" versions of others costing almost double.
 
EarlK thanks for your info! Very insightful!

I think the answer to my question is... go try it then!

I'm thinking a little mix between Billwaslo SEOS12 plus Delta 12A and the Econowave Deluxe ... using Celestion CDX-1 1746, QSC clone and Delta 12A which is a lot cheaper than the Deltalite 2512 or the Kappalite 3012LF.

Weird this combination hasn't been used before, as each of the parts are "cheap" versions of others costing almost double.

You're Welcome!

I think you'll find that as a product the Delta12A is really over-shadowed by the reputation of the Dayton PA310-8 driver ( as the "best-bang-for-the-buck" 12-incher ). Heck, that PA310 is only $60.00 right now.
Zilch designed 2 econowaves for the PA310-8 which should say something ( plus, when designing a crossover the published curves for the PA310 look to be a lot easier to deal with than those of the Delta12A ) .


:)
 
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Not so "econo", but to keep the thread going. My latest...LE14H with 2344/2426 on top. The 2404 is for giggles and won't stay. 4430 crossover on top, customized LF crossover to meet it at ~ 1kH. F3 at 32 in 4.0 cu ft cabinets I got for near nothing. New motor board to bring the woofer up and, of course, to accommodate the odd size LE14. The curves for this and the 4430 match up, right down to the -3dB point. Next up, grilles. Next up, OLA conversion.

LE 14 W 2344.jpg
 
Guilty as charged :)

Did you ever re-port the box to get more bass out of it ( down to 50hz ) ?

What about measurements ?

I'm curious bout how the crossover region hangs together ( with the substitute driver )

E

Hi EarlK,
Yes I did add in the two ports and this certainly extended the bass performance.

IMG_20181027_132838924_HDR[1].jpg

I also recreated the original crossover in XSim and had a play, but quickly realised that the guess work wasn't really going to cut it and so I'm saving for OMNIMIC and DATS.

I really did go deep into the links you've kindly provided here to measure impedance and read carefully Paul Carmody's simulated measurements how to, but I still come away feeling that there's no substitute for actual measurements, I'd get good value from these tools and learn a heap along the way too.

I'm 20 years into this hobby, I've at least another 20 years in me so I'm going to get good use out of these tools, I may as well have them, rather than wonder.

In the mean time I spent about 3 months with the celestion/seos/faital system in my main listening room. I really like what I hear, but recognising that I really wouldn't know how well the celestion has integrated until I can measure the system and then tweak it using XSim (which I fully intend to do particularly for others that might substitute the DIY Sound Group Denovo driver with the Celestion in the SEOS), I've gone back to my Klipsch 5.5's. There's something about the 5.5's that is really addictive - for me. :music:

When I read Zaph's Evaluation Myth's busted page I had a little laugh at myself and all the subjective views on Hifi I've read over the years. Kind of reinforced my determination to get proficient at measurement and find out why empirically I like the sound of the 5.5's soooo much? :idea:

And I recently picked up a pair of Dayton Econowave clones used for a bargain, so when I do get my measuring gear I'm keen to do an Econowave - Aussie using drivers that can be sourced in Aus for economy prices. This is what prompted me to post my Econowave KG 5.5 Xsim mock up....:)
 
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Not so "econo", but to keep the thread going. My latest...LE14H with 2344/2426 on top. The 2404 is for giggles and won't stay. 4430 crossover on top, customized LF crossover to meet it at ~ 1kH. F3 at 32 in 4.0 cu ft cabinets I got for near nothing. New motor board to bring the woofer up and, of course, to accommodate the odd size LE14. The curves for this and the 4430 match up, right down to the -3dB point. Next up, grilles. Next up, OLA conversion.

View attachment 1457782

Why do I hear that song with the lyric "I like big butts" when I see this pic? :bigok:
 
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Well. I have been making trouble today. I acquired some 1.9 cu.ft. cabinets that were Lorenz speakers and...um, they're my new contenders as keepers.
I took my NLA bass drivers and made them at home in these GREAT MCM (walnut) cabinets which will be put on 6" hairpin legs. Added the dee-luxe top end and they are darn tasty. I will be measuring them to be sure the crossovers are dialed in and the forward lobe is in the right place, but these will be so nice with the legs and a good choice of grille cloth.

Frames built for the LE14 not-so-econowave so I can put the grille cloth on when it arrives.

ADVANT TROUBLE.jpg
 
Yes, but I have a half dozen HF combos. I want to change them out. The deluxe is my first choice and it does not fit. My second choice is the 2342 and it does not fit, but the PI 4 with the H290 may be the winner and it will fit. I just got the cab done today. Hold tight for more experiments.
 
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