ZX 9 still not fixed right uggggggg!!!

mrtransam5

Active Member
:tears: third time didnt seem to be a charm, it plays fine and thats about it. i can set the azimuth but that is all, the level calibration and bias are not working correctly. the third time in he said he found some broken chasis parts and fixed them, and a broken plastic piece that i guess holds the transport system together. he said he drilled it out and put a small bolt in its place, dont think i 100% agree with this fix. when i picked it up he said it was working fine. but not so much when i got it home.
on the bias and level controls when i turn them up or down on the left or right channel both meters for l and r go up and down, and they also wont go to over the calibration marks. i am so frustrated about the hole deal it isnt even funny, he has repair all of my other equipment with no problems. i just think this one is over his head, dont get me wrong he is very good at what he does but this deck is in a whole other league. its like when i had my porsche if i couldnt do the work on it, it did not go to anyone that wasnt specialized in porsches. i know now that my naks will from now on go to the people that specialize in them. just have to save up the money now, i am sure it will be around 1k to have esl do a restoration on it. i hope he didnt do more damage than good.:tears:
also on the left wheel that goes in the tape there is a piece of green felt or something that when play is engaged it pushes up against it. any know if this is correct.:scratch2:
well my bx 300 is working perfectly so its not like i dont have a nice nak but i want the zx 9 to be working like i now it can. thanks for listening, mark
 
:tears: third time didnt seem to be a charm, it plays fine and thats about it. i can set the azimuth but that is all, the level calibration and bias are not working correctly. the third time in he said he found some broken chasis parts and fixed them, and a broken plastic piece that i guess holds the transport system together. he said he drilled it out and put a small bolt in its place, dont think i 100% agree with this fix. when i picked it up he said it was working fine. but not so much when i got it home.
on the bias and level controls when i turn them up or down on the left or right channel both meters for l and r go up and down, and they also wont go to over the calibration marks. i am so frustrated about the hole deal it isnt even funny, he has repair all of my other equipment with no problems. i just think this one is over his head, dont get me wrong he is very good at what he does but this deck is in a whole other league. its like when i had my porsche if i couldnt do the work on it, it did not go to anyone that wasnt specialized in porsches. i know now that my naks will from now on go to the people that specialize in them. just have to save up the money now, i am sure it will be around 1k to have esl do a restoration on it. i hope he didnt do more damage than good.:tears:
also on the left wheel that goes in the tape there is a piece of green felt or something that when play is engaged it pushes up against it. any know if this is correct.:scratch2:
well my bx 300 is working perfectly so its not like i dont have a nice nak but i want the zx 9 to be working like i now it can. thanks for listening, mark

Sorry about all this but do you remember my initial response? As I've said, I only trust one tech on my Nak from experience. Just go with ESL and be done with it. You'll have a perfect ZX-9 upon return.
 
HI,
I agree with jazzgene. When I had my repair shop I specialized on Nakamichi. I had people from all over the country sending me their Nak's because of the difficulty of finding competent repair locally.

Most techs are not tape or Nak specialists. Remember, tape machines of any kind are the most complicated of all hi fi gear. Just because a tech can fix an amp does not mean he can fix a tape machine especially a complicated one like many Nak's. Tape decks require special knowledge, especially Nak's or any high end machine, and a significant investment in special tools and manuals.

Consider the following: A tape machine has all the ordinary electronics circuits of a preamp, special circuits found only in tape decks, magnetic technology, significant mechanical challenges, and more. This is not to mention a level of precision found nowhere else in the world of hi fi. These are the reasons I specialized in tape; it was fun and interesting.

Send your machine to a specialist and live happily forever. You have a fine tape machine but it needs to be debugged by someone who knows what they are doing. Clearly, your tech is in over his head.

Sparky
 
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Sorry to read this. As everybody, including yourself, has said, you'd better take it to a shop specialized on Nakamichi.
 
Unfortunately I tend to agree with the rest. This is not a machine to trust to just any tech. Although I am not certain that your only option is ESL. I would also trust somebody like forum members Fred Sanford, and NakDoc.
 
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NakDoc would be the only other I'd trust with this one. He specializes in Nakamichi decks as well and is excellent. Complex beastie these machines are.
 
I have to echo everyone else.
Even if your tech has experience with cassette decks.
Proper Nakamichi service requires more than a passing familiarity with the specific decks and issues.

Experience counts.

The ZX series is another one of those innovative decks that in my humble opinion offer the capability to make some of the best recordings possible using the cassette format.

In fact, from a record standpoint, more accurate than the Dragon.

A ZX-9 deserves to be at it's top form, and deserves to be looked at by an experienced tech.
 
For something like a Dragon, ZX-7/9, CR-7A, etc... there's only one place to send it to, to get it serviced and done right.

http://www.eslabs.com/nakamichi.htm

Their turnaround time isn't the greatest nor are the prices cheap, but Jeff is THE man for servicing Naks. Quality workmanship doesn't come cheap and you do get what you pay for.
 
I have to echo everyone else.
Even if your tech has experience with cassette decks.
Proper Nakamichi service requires more than a passing familiarity with the specific decks and issues.

Experience counts.

The ZX series is another one of those innovative decks that in my humble opinion offer the capability to make some of the best recordings possible using the cassette format.

In fact, from a record standpoint, more accurate than the Dragon.

A ZX-9 deserves to be at it's top form, and deserves to be looked at by an experienced tech.

Can you please tell me how the ZX-9 makes more accurate recordings than a Dragon?

From technical standpoint and musical view, it does not. The Dragon recordings show much more precise speed stability and this translates to much better music with instruments like piano and acoustic guitar. Also, the w/f on a Dragon recording is lower. So in reality, the Dragon recordings are closer to the truth of the source input.

Both decks record flat at -20db from 20hz to 20khz on my bench.
 
The Dragon's FR is not quite as ruler-flat as is the ZX-9's. Also by having NAAC, it it difficult, if not impossible to adjust the record head's azimuth precisely. Where as once the PB heads azimuth on the ZX-9 is properly calibrated, its a snap to adjust its record-head to match.

Its a small detail, but it is a reason why the ZX-9 has a slight recording advantage over the Dragon and CR-7A. But they both have a playback advantage over the ZX-9.
 
The Dragon's FR is not quite as ruler-flat as is the ZX-9's. Also by having NAAC, it it difficult, if not impossible to adjust the record head's azimuth precisely. Where as once the PB heads azimuth on the ZX-9 is properly calibrated, its a snap to adjust its record-head to match.

Its a small detail, but it is a reason why the ZX-9 has a slight recording advantage over the Dragon and CR-7A. But they both have a playback advantage over the ZX-9.

Not on my bench. The ZX-9 is not ruler flat 20hz to 20khz at -20db. I see a bump of less than 1 db at 20 hz. The upper from about 12khz all the way to 20k has a sligth bump as well, no more than 1db. The Dragon shows the same. This is with a current TDK SA tape. Not the greatest tape.

Also, the published specs by Nakamichi shows the Dragon to have the superior frequency response. Not by much and perhaps not audible but on paper, it is there.

NAAC has nothing to do with setting the RH's azimuth on the Dragon. You disable the NAAC and you use the same reference test tape you use on the ZX-9 to set the PB head and RH precisely. I would even go to say that because of the azimuth errors brought on by the tape shell, the setting of the RH azimuth on the ZX-9 is not foolproof. Try setting the azimuth on a tape at the beginning, then ffw to middle and see if it still holds, then try the very end. On many tapes, the azimuth will be different.
 
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Ok, I'll take your work on the FR. I am under the impression that the CR-7A is ever so sightly flatter than is the Dragon though, but perhaps I'm mistaken about that as well.

Regarding the record-head azimuth: My point was that the record head can be manually tweaked for each tape to make it absolutely perfect. This is a slight advantage when recording IMO.
 
Let me offer a couple of additions here.
First, the broken nylon repair with a bolt and nut is the proper way to repair broken chassis spacers. Nakamichi had a kit that "repaired" these the exact same manner. The spacers break during shipping.

Second, and I believe I offered you this advice before, begin calibration with bias and level centered. DO NOT change any setting more that 30 degrees of rotation either way without doing the other adjustment. Calibration is an interactive iterative process. Walk it into the proper setting (not run). Setting bias or level to the extremes is wrong....it just won't work.

Third, did your tech use the same tape(s) you are using? If he is using TDK SAx and you are using Sony, there is going to be a significant change between his initial settings and yours.

Fourth, there are several good Nakamichi techs in the US now. Willy, Perry, and myself are the practical man's alternatives to ESL. ESL provides a special service and they charge accordingly. The 3 of us do Nak repairs so the average person can continue to enjoy Nakamichis without the types of frustrations you are experiencing. Yes, Nakamichis are specialized because they require unique test jigs to align, but ESL is not the only choice you have. AK is all about community and the support we give each other. I invite you or your tech to contact me and let's see if we can get your deck running without further shipping.
 
Ok, I'll take your work on the FR. I am under the impression that the CR-7A is ever so sightly flatter than is the Dragon though, but perhaps I'm mistaken about that as well.

Regarding the record-head azimuth: My point was that the record head can be manually tweaked for each tape to make it absolutely perfect. This is a slight advantage when recording IMO.

Well, the published specs for CR7 is 20 to 20k +/- 2db. Will it have a flatter response than a Dragon? Only testing will know and each test only can say for that specific deck. On my CR7, it does not show any better than my Dragon at -20db. I did not test sub 20hz though. I did hear that it is possible to have a CR7 flat down to 10hz. But 10hz is below my hearing ability, probably, so not too concerned. But just to be OCD, I think I will make a test CD with the sub 20hz tones. My T-100 goes down only to 20hz.

Anyway, the frequency response between these 3 decks at spec is very very close.

The real truth is that every deck will be a bit different, even between the same models. That is why they publish the frequency response with a range instead of absolute number. There are differences in quality in runs of heads and I know for a fact that my ZX-9 came with a bad PB head brand new. Rare but it does happen. The head had gap scatter and had to be replaced. That is why cherry picking is possible with heads. On my ZX-9, ESL cherry picked a superb head for me.

As for azimuth, I think you are misunderstanding the concept a bit. On a ZX-9, the PB head is set to reference. In recording, what you attempt to do is to compensate for the skew coming from the tape shell and transport by tweaking the RH so the recording is exactly perpendicular to the PB head. I believe the ZX-9 uses a 400hz tone to do this. This is no more accurate than the Dragon that does the opposite. Dragon has the RH head set to reference against the PB head before the NAAC is active. Once the NAAC is on, the azimuth error introduced by tape will now be compensated by the PB head. And get this, the NAAC will detect even after initial lock on if the azimuth becomes off later. This can happen on a tape recorded using several different decks, for example. Or a bad tape can drift in azimuth over the course of the length of the tape. The fact is both of these decks have a superb RH. There is no difference in "accuracy" of the signal put down onto tape. It is the retrieval of the data where the azimuth makes a practical difference to the listener. And as for retrieval of the signal, Dragon is clearly superior.

The one aspect that I like recording on the ZX-9 is the fact that the tape can be transfered to other non-pb head azimuth adjust decks with great success IF the other decks have the same PB head azimuth as the ZX-9 (this should be the case if you use reference standard on all your PB heads but rarely the case unless you have DIY skills and the gear to do it yourself). The Dragon will require another deck with a PB head azimuth adust to bring out the best. However, no other deck I know of fixes azimuth on the fly as it plays in real time automatically! To my ears, nothing sounds better than a Dragon including Tandbergs and Revox decks I've heard. Actually, now that I think about it, I think Marantz had a deck that had something similar to NAAC. They called it MAAC but I have never used this deck and don't know if it can correct azimuth on the fly or perhaps, it just locks on at the beginning and retains that setting for the whole tape.

Long winded but hope it makes sense to you.
 
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Jazzgene,
You have to go beyond the specs to discover the differences between the ZX 9 and Dragon, or any 3 head Nak deck for that matter. Look at response out to 28kHz, and down to 10 Hz. Check record performance at -10dB or 0dB, not just -20dB.
You will find that the ZX-9, because it uses the selected heads found in the ZXL series, is flat from 8Hz to 26kHz minimum. It will record 20kHz at -10dB. The Dragon, while great between 20-20kHz, does not have the extra bandwidth and headroom of the ZX-9.
BUT, for most people who keep the recording levels below +5, most of this extra performance is not realized. I would offer that the differences are academic except for the very special recordist. Jazzgene IS one of those special recordists, so the challenge is for him to try recording himself at +8 on metal tape and then compare the decks again.
And, my favorite response to discussions like this, "What's wrong with having both decks?"
 
Can you please tell me how the ZX-9 makes more accurate recordings than a Dragon?

Fine, just to make you happy, I'll remove the "accurate" part.

MY ZX-7 in MY system, makes better recordings, to MY ears, than MY Dragon, or MY CT-F1250, or MY CT-F950, ad nauseum.

My ZX-7 is in perfect form, running as well as a ZX can.
(IE: meeting or beating published specs)

I now have a second Dragon, it is in excellent shape, not ESL serviced, but with a properly adjusted REC and PB EQ curve.

I don't audibly detect W/F issues with any of my Naks, I can however spot it on a TT, and sometimes master tapes.

My ZX-7 makes a better record deck, by better, I mean more pleasing to my ears.


That's all that matters.

YMMV, experience user-dependent, yadda..yadda..
 
Jazzgene,
You have to go beyond the specs to discover the differences between the ZX 9 and Dragon, or any 3 head Nak deck for that matter. Look at response out to 28kHz, and down to 10 Hz. Check record performance at -10dB or 0dB, not just -20dB.
You will find that the ZX-9, because it uses the selected heads found in the ZXL series, is flat from 8Hz to 26kHz minimum. It will record 20kHz at -10dB. The Dragon, while great between 20-20kHz, does not have the extra bandwidth and headroom of the ZX-9.
BUT, for most people who keep the recording levels below +5, most of this extra performance is not realized. I would offer that the differences are academic except for the very special recordist. Jazzgene IS one of those special recordists, so the challenge is for him to try recording himself at +8 on metal tape and then compare the decks again.
And, my favorite response to discussions like this, "What's wrong with having both decks?"

Thanks for the insight! I've played around with -10db and 0 db but not to make comparisons between all my decks.

I can imagine on paper having 8hz and 26khz ability looks great but does it really translate to music? I haven't found that so as my Dragon sounds better to me than my ZX-9 or the CR7 or the 1000zxl and the other lowly Naks I have...

I usually record metal tapes at +7 peak. No higher. I might be courageous on the next one and go +8 as you recommend!

And I whole heartedly agree on having both decks! :D
 
Fine, just to make you happy, I'll remove the "accurate" part.

MY ZX-7 in MY system, makes better recordings, to MY ears, than MY Dragon, or MY CT-F1250, or MY CT-F950, ad nauseum.

My ZX-7 is in perfect form, running as well as a ZX can.
(IE: meeting or beating published specs)

I now have a second Dragon, it is in excellent shape, not ESL serviced, but with a properly adjusted REC and PB EQ curve.

I don't audibly detect W/F issues with any of my Naks, I can however spot it on a TT, and sometimes master tapes.

My ZX-7 makes a better record deck, by better, I mean more pleasing to my ears.


That's all that matters.

YMMV, experience user-dependent, yadda..yadda..

That's fine. And I was not trying to be argumentative.

To you, the ZX-7 sounds better than the Dragon. That is all good! Enjoy.
 
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