Live Piano --> my system sucks :)

shimniok

shimniok

Super Member
It's been awhile since I've had a chance to hear live acoustic music. I had that chance earlier today: live piano in a fairly live acoustic setting... such sweet, beautiful, liquidy, rich tone... nothing at all like piano recordings played on my system. A good reminder of how far short my system (and others I guess) fall from the real thing.
 
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I think most piano is poorly recorded. It always seems like the engineers cut the bottom end too much, or never capture it to begin with. Recording an instrument so large and that covers so much range must be a challenge.
 
have you tried a good equalizer ? even though it is considered taboo in many audio circles.,a good EQ such as a soundcratsmen can do wonders to make piano and violin come alive when the rest of the gear or the room dynamics are lacking.
and contrary to some a poor recording such as MP3 can be greatly enhanced with a good EQ. I say soundcraftsmen mostly because they seem better than most others and you can pick one up on ebay for pocket change.
 
The harmonics of piano are, I guess, numerous and complex... very, very difficult to reproduce all of them in the right proportions... if not, the timber is off... then there's phase correctness as well... dynamics... etc. Yeah, very, very hard to reproduce piano, I think.
 
onepixel said:
Live piano music is probably one of the hardest to capture. Get the piano right and everything else is a dream.
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Totally agreed. I've never had it better in regards to piano on a system that I do now, and I hear piano enough to know. No equalizer required. Listen to plenty of live music and takes notes from time to time, remind yourself of what you need to listen for when choosing gear. Keep at it and will eventually come together.
 
shimniok said:
The harmonics of piano are, I guess, numerous and complex... very, very difficult to reproduce all of them in the right proportions... if not, the timber is off... then there's phase correctness as well... dynamics... etc. Yeah, very, very hard to reproduce piano, I think.
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Try capturing it to the recording in the first place. :no:
 
I think that most speakers play piano poorly.

A few that I feel do a very good job, are Mags, Dana Audio, and Unity Audio.
 
Perhaps if you transported your system to the venue where you hear the piano and played it there it would sound better? After all, it's the venue and or room acoustics that have a big influence on what you hear, while the ambience has a major impact upon how much you enjoy it.

Just listening to S&G's NY concert here (my defence is it's early here) and the sound is far better than when I saw them live. For a start, there's not thousands of people in front of me coughing, eating and talking in front of me!
 
I agree with others. Good piano recordings are worth their weight in gold. I have found my open baffle speakers bring out the best in the really good recordings however.

mike
 
I don't know; I guess I need to listen harder. I know Bauhausler once commented to me how hard it was to find a speaker that does piano right and he certainly has the experience to back that statement up.

But I do enjoy piano recordings and will pick up Living Stereo or classical piano recordings when I'm out scrounging for that reason alone. I also have a tendency to plink the keys when given a chance to try to see what live really sounds like, which I did last year when my wife had an estate sale Steinway she was commissioned on and when we get road shows at work.

What are you guys looking for that I'm seeming to miss? FWIW, I'm using tubes and horns, so the dynamics don't seem to be an issue.

Then again, perhaps ignorance is bliss :D
 
Well, I use tubes and horns and am pleased with the piano reprouction ,now don't want to cause a stir but I changed my speaker cables and rca cables,and I didn't buy the really expensive ones just entry level from Transparent,at first I thought they sounded bad but with a call to the company they had me move and toe the speakers in and wow what a difference ,and one of the things I noticed was that the piano sounds great.
 
Have you collected any good piano recordings?

I'd post in the music forum asking of very quality piano recordings, pick a few up, and then see if it's more an issue with your system, or more an issue with your setup.

In fact, I'd like to add some good piano recordings to my collection myself.


I think I'll post that question for both of us. :)
 
hi , turbomustang is correct most pop recordings do have much of the piano spectrum cut out (by purpose), or are incorrectly miked
I wouldn't hang this on every engineer as a few i know... tireless souls... consider it an art to mike a piano, as its one of the most difficult instruments to record .
Classical labels are the best in my opinion in getting a Steinway to sound like a Steinway in a recording and do very little at the board end to mess this up.
The jazz labels i admit are just as good, but pop ..forget it most are trimmed on top and bottom and its done mainly to be loud and to fit into the mix as easilly as possible
Most pop players want an overly bright grand sound anyways, eg elton, david foster, and billy joel to name a few (who btw play the same yamaha grand)
Try an outboard eq, but use it carefully, its hard to get something back that was never recorded in the first place


ROb,
 
More than frequencies I think that the transients, dynamic range and ambient sound stage are primary in creating that "in the same room with you" feeling for piano music.

mike
 
I don't doubt many members have fantastic sounding systems, but no matter what we think, ALL of our systems, no matter the cost, are at best a pale comparison to the real thing.

You've just realized the difference between actual, live, honest-to-god sound and tone being produced by a hammer and string, or a bow and string, or any live instrument and the same sound being produced with electronics.

Your system doesn't suck, enjoy your system for what it is--an enjoyable and relaxing way to listen to great sounding music at home.

When you want to hear the real thing, do yourself a favor and go out and hear it.

I've had the pleasure to hear some very expensive (20k or more) systems and a DIY set up so over the top it simply can't even begin to be described here.

They were extremely impressive, certainly making my humble system seem downright comical by comparison--but even they fell short of the real thing. Close, but still no cigar...

I've performed in large band, orchestra, jazz trio, jazz quartet for going on a quarter century, regularly seek out great live music in fantastic/intimate venus and nothing can totally reproduce or totally replace the real thing.

Best,

John
 
All the Eq'ing in the world isn't going to give you authentic piano sound if

1. It isn't in the recording.
It just isn't there in pop recordings.

2. Your speakers can't get it right anyway.
Almost none can. The more popular "vintage" (on this site) box type speakers haven't got a prayer.

Most panels do a better job although they usually have macrodynamics problems. They do however, get the microdynamics right.
The bigger Maggy's, full range ESL's and the larger Apogees all do a piano "fairly" well. The best piano reproduction I've heard was from a pair of very large Sound Lab ESL's. The were in the +$20K price catagory but they sounded more like a piano than anything else I've ever heard.
 
One of the reasons i bought my 81 Cornwalls was the way it reproduced the grand piano
put on a classical piano recording,EG:Sergie Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No 3 in D minor by Jorge Bolet and the London Symphony Orchestra , walk out of the room, and i swear there is a 9' being played in the next room.
the cornwalls were the smoothest of the line for concert grand i found.
Not even the Mcintosh xrt-18 system was as convincing for me as the Klipsch with Piano

ahhh those horns!
 
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