How do we get the Audiokarma message out there?

People aren't missing a thing, as far as gear goes. The action is live music, at concerts, clubs, bars, symphonies, and parks. If people hear good music, they will want to hear it again, and that leads to getting decent gear to experience the thrill in your house.

People who aren't moved by music, or don't feel a strong connection, may not see a need for a good system. You can talk til you turn blue in the face, but it won't change things. I knew I needed a stereo after I caught a Boston concert in high school. :yes:
 
As I read the OP's opening, I assumed he was talking about new gear and the more interest and purchases the lower the prices would go, which I would agree could happen. Not sure why some of you assume the gear he refered too would be vintage.
 
kermit z said:
As I read the OP's opening, I assumed he was talking about new gear and the more interest and purchases the lower the prices would go, which I would agree could happen. Not sure why some of you assume the gear he refered too would be vintage.
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Glad I wasn't the only one.
 
TejasRichard said:
So, audiokarma would literally mean audioaction or audiodeed. Interpret as you will, but for me this means, at least in some small measure, helping others to discover what they've been missing....even as I, myself, discover what is possible.
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Right, but there's a HUGE difference between a) just doing your own thing and if others happen to notice it, to give them some pointers, and b) going around trying to educate or enlighten people about sound.

If you're doing a, then good for you. But, b? Oh, man.
 
I think it's pointless to try to change people's minds about audio (not to mention just about anything else)

We're all kind of stuck in our own contexts. Our own world views. Our own intricate understanding of How Things Are. We are all in our respective mindsets constructed from long journeys. We've arrived at our respective 'locations' through many steps. And we only see things from our vantage point.

When you don't know enough about where another person is coming from you can't possibly understand, not truly, what the heck they're evangelizing at you about.

To have a major epiphany, a major shift, means undoing and redoing many steps. A few conversations a few hundred words just can't do that.

Either instantly turn everything the person knows about something on its head and let them wonder what you know that they don't... or forget it.

Telling a kid his ipod is crap and a vintage system is a million times better is meaningless to the kid and has zero impact. Because he has absolutely zero reference for understanding what better is, what it could sound like, not to mention why he should care. In his life, he's only known compact discs (maybe) and ipods, and has no other systems to compare to. Play his favorite song on your system, and maybe he realizes there's a bigger world, a different world than he thought there was. He may not like it enough to care or change. Or maybe he will. Who knows.

Michael
 
" couple of years back, I come across a great and wasted friend of mine in the hallway of a recording studio; and while he was reciting some poetry to me that he'd written, I saw that he was about a step away from dyin' and I couldn't help but wonder why. And the lines of this song occurred to me. I'm happy to say he's no longer wasted and he's got him a good woman. And I'd like to dedicate this to John and June, who helped show me how to beat the devil.

It was winter time in Nashville, down on music city row.
And I was lookin' for a place to get myself out of the cold.
To warm the frozen feelin' that was eatin' at my soul.
Keep the chilly wind off my guitar.

My thirsty wanted whisky; my hungry needed beans,
But it'd been of month of paydays since I'd heard that eagle scream.
So with a stomach full of empty and a pocket full of dreams,
I left my pride and stepped inside a bar.

Actually, I guess you'd could call it a Tavern:
Cigarette smoke to the ceiling and sawdust on the floor;
Friendly shadows.

I saw that there was just one old man sittin' at the bar.
And in the mirror I could see him checkin' me and my guitar.
An' he turned and said: "Come up here boy, and show us what you are."
I said: "I'm dry." He bought me a beer.

He nodded at my guitar and said: "It's a tough life, ain't it?"
I just looked at him. He said: "You ain't makin' any money, are you?"
I said: "You've been readin' my mail."
He just smiled and said: "Let me see that guitar.
"I've got something you oughta hear."
Then he laid it on me:

"If you waste your time a-talkin' to the people who don't listen,
"To the things that you are sayin', who do you think's gonna hear.
"And if you should die explainin' how the things that they complain about,
"Are things they could be changin', who do you think's gonna care?"

There were other lonely singers in a world turned deaf and blind,
Who were crucified for what they tried to show.
And their voices have been scattered by the swirling winds of time.
'Cos the truth remains that no-one wants to know.

Well, the old man was a stranger, but I'd heard his song before,
Back when failure had me locked out on the wrong side of the door.
When no-one stood behind me but my shadow on the floor,
And lonesome was more than a state of mind.

You see, the devil haunts a hungry man,
If you don't wanna join him, you got to beat him.
I ain't sayin' I beat the devil, but I drank his beer for nothing.
Then I stole his song.

And you still can hear me singin' to the people who don't listen,
To the things that I am sayin', prayin' someone's gonna hear.
And I guess I'll die explaining how the things that they complain about,
Are things they could be changin', hopin' someone's gonna care.

I was born a lonely singer, and I'm bound to die the same,
But I've got to feed the hunger in my soul.
And if I never have a nickle, I won't ever die ashamed.
'Cos I don't believe that no-one wants to know." - "To Beat the Devil"-Kristofferson-Kris Kristofferson

What the hell, boys...I confess. I'm just an ol' idealistic optomist. :D
No harm, no foul. I hope y'all are all having a good weekend. Mine's goin' great so far, and will be even better once party time gets here..:banana:
Nothin like a passel of girls with few inhabitions and access to booze and a hot tub to really make the weekend right :thmbsp:
 
people will come over to my house and they pretty much have to notice the stereo as the speakers stick out like a sore thumb. They will feign some interest, usually just trying to be nice. I then have them sit down for a minute to listen to it.
Usually the routine is about the same - they sit and listen for a minute or 2 and now they no longer feign interest, but start asking questions about it and maybe get up and go check everything out for real this time....
but, and it is always pretty much the same, with rare exception - even though they now hear why I enjoy it so much, few actually sit and listen for more then a couple of minutes. They will hear enough to think wow, this does not sound like their Bose Wave Radio, but it seems no one can actually just sit and listen to music - give them 2 minutes tops and the conversation starts, which then leads to more conversation and once again the music is just background noise to them.
They seem to be able to sit with rapt attention as they watch The bachelor or some other reality tv show, but put on some music and their attention span shrinks to a minute or 2 at best.
That is just the way it is now. Not saying listening to music is better then watching brain dead tv (:yes:) but people just do not sit and listen to music.
For the vast majority, music is used as background noise while they do other things.
Actually, I feel a system which I may enjoy would actually be a waste for many of the people I know. No matter how much they are surprised at how mine sounds, if they owned it, it would still just be used for background music.
There is nothing I could do (or should do for that matter) that is going to change their lifestyle. Listening to music is basically a lifestyle choice. It is pretty much the same as thinking that since I enjoy , say woodworking, photography or something like that, that I should try to get everyone I know as excited about it as I am.
For me, since my pocketbook excludes so much stuff anyway, they could quit making audio equipment tomorrow and even if I had a couple of million to spend, i could find more then enough gear around to keep me happy in this lifetime.
 
Share the way,
Tell others about enlightenment.
It's why we're here.

OR

You can lead a horse to water;
You can't make him drink.
 
reneborg said:
Remember when WE were kids and wanted everything real quick too? Whether it was driving, s e x, or imbibing .... To me, it seems only after becoming more mature, did many of us begin to appreciate that going slowly can also have its virtues.
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I agree. When I was young I was all about collecting and listening to new music. Gear wasn't important. I thought that my first Sony Walkman was the sh*t!

Now that I'm older (nearing 50) and have less time to listen, I am exposed less to new music - mostly from the radio - and spend more time listening to stuff I already have. I listen more carefully and deeply, whereas I used to focus just on the parts of songs that I really liked. I have an iPod that I listen to on the bus to work, though often I listen to radio podcasts. I don't think it sounds bad at all, but it's nothing like my systems at home.

However, there is one ominous note that I came across in another thread in the last couple of months. It discussed research done by Stanford? on teenagers' listening preferences. The study concluded that the compression inflicted on many new pop recordings by "sound engineers" and crappy radio stations is conditioning the ears of youth to like and look for that sound. I was listening to a Britney Spears song on NPR the other day and it was just a wall of sound - loud and syncopated and busy but with no dynamics to speak of. This is what worries me most for the future.
 
BadassBob said:
As we all know, modern pop music will sound almost the same as it does coming out of an iPod as it would a couple big speakers.
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Blast "Lady Gaga" on a good pair of speakers and it will sound much better than Apple Crapbuds. Now whether the music is music or whether it's recording quality is any good at all is a different question. More pop music now seems to be a little less "dynamically challenged" (I'm coining that term :D) than it was a few years ago...maybe they're adding different effects to make it seem less obnoxiously loud? Almost seems like they are cutting the upper mids off a bit to make the overall loudness of the song less fatiguing...

timofred said:
Kids seem to want everything real quick, real cheap.
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I think it can work both ways...
I'm 17 and I'll torrent a few hundred songs, listen to them, and buy on CD (or vinyl if possible) if I like it, and delete the ones I don't. Is it technically legal? no. Is it stealing? no. Is it a good way to discover new music? :music: This technology can be useful for our hobby as well as the mainstream.

TejasRichard said:
Um, I don't read anything in the OP that says anything about vintage gear.
To quote Grumpy:

"Do you think AK is about vintage or cheap ?
If you do then you have the wrong web site. Its about a community who appreciates all audio and music."

The OP says an appreciation of good audio would cause more folks to start buying product. If more folks out there were buying NEW 2-channel-specific audio, don't you think that more of the big-name manufacturers would start competing again? And doesn't competition between brands usually lead to dropping prices? Given, it would take a large shift in public awareness and buying habits to bring this about, but it seems to me that this is exactly what the OP is suggesting we try to facilitate.
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Exactly. But would it be cheap ENOUGH?
 
My 50 year old ears listen to each instrument and vocalist when I listen. I grew up listening that way, and always will. When I hear these "wall of sound" recordings from new artists, I just about want to puke.

I like being able to tell if the bass player is any good. I like listening to each piece of the drum kit. I like being able to tell if the individual players are any good.

Wall of sound is just that. A wall. Flat and featureless.
 
sheltie dave said:
People aren't missing a thing, as far as gear goes. The action is live music, at concerts, clubs, bars, symphonies, and parks. If people hear good music, they will want to hear it again, and that leads to getting decent gear to experience the thrill in your house.

People who aren't moved by music, or don't feel a strong connection, may not see a need for a good system. You can talk til you turn blue in the face, but it won't change things. I knew I needed a stereo after I caught a Boston concert in high school. :yes:
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Then explain why so many still go to concerts, outdoor shows etc and audio is in the state it is right now. Under your theory audio should be in its heyday, and it is far from that. People experience it: but nothing like 20 years ago, perhaps even 10. People could see the value 20 years ago but not now.

But look at the boom of video games. We are a visual species so it is understandable that movies and games are popular. But these are ACTIVE pastimes. The movie or game involves you. Critical listening, or appreciation of sound passively, is not valued anymore and thus the audiophile is dwindling. This is not a guess but fact.
 
zombie1210 said:
My 50 year old ears listen to each instrument and vocalist when I listen. I grew up listening that way, and always will. When I hear these "wall of sound" recordings from new artists, I just about want to puke.

I like being able to tell if the bass player is any good. I like listening to each piece of the drum kit. I like being able to tell if the individual players are any good.

Wall of sound is just that. A wall. Flat and featureless.
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Hear, Hear.
 
zombie1210 said:
My 50 year old ears listen to each instrument and vocalist when I listen. I grew up listening that way, and always will. When I hear these "wall of sound" recordings from new artists, I just about want to puke.

I like being able to tell if the bass player is any good. I like listening to each piece of the drum kit. I like being able to tell if the individual players are any good.

Wall of sound is just that. A wall. Flat and featureless.
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It's not new.

from wikipedia:

"The Wall of Sound is a music production technique for pop and rock music recordings developed by record producer Phil Spector at Gold Star Studios during the 1960s. Spector, working with audio engineers such as Larry Levine, created a dense, layered, and reverberant sound that reproduced well on AM radio and jukeboxes popular in the era. He created this sound by having a number of electric and acoustic guitarists perform the same parts in unison, adding musical arrangements for large groups of musicians up to the size of orchestras, and then recording the sound using an echo chamber."

whole article here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wall_of_sound#Songs_using_the_technique
 
Two things: More people interested in vinyl will only raise prices of vintage gear. I don't care if other people are interested and I'm sure not going to try to convince them that vinyl IS superior. Also, within their Ipod/Itunes lifestyle it's not superior. The other thing, and I really believe this, if you use this site religiously and take home some good advice you ought to become a subscriber. To me, the best way to support my interest in audio is to support AK and other sites like it by giving them 25 bucks a year.

Oh... Just because 30 years ago everybody who listened to music probably had a TT and vinyl doesn't mean that they appreciated the sound or were getting stellar sound. That's all we had. For many, the CD WAS a real improvement. I would bet that the percentage of Audiophiles (serious listeners) hasn't changed much over that 30 year period either. In fact, there may be more now than then. Also, why be a Jehova's Witness for vinyl and tube gear. There's only so many spots in heaven, and in the vinyl world there are only so many TD124's.
 
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