Buying used classical CDs

Mr. Lin

Mr. Lin

Lunatic Member
Been doing a lot of this lately due to suddenly drastically restricted spending budget. Not only are they usually dirt cheap, but something I've begun to notice is that every single used classical CD I've purchased is in practically perfect condition save for some dust, not even a single scratch on any of them - the cases are sometimes less than perfect but that's not a problem for me as long as the cover/booklet is ok.

I suppose people who are into classical music take really good care of their music collections? Just a thought.
 
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My non-classical CDs are in big books, I got sick of storing the jewel cases. My classical CDs are still in their cases. For some reason they seem more 'worthy'.

I bought a bunch of used classical at a farmers market by my house last year. Cheap, and well cared for. Just listened to some of that haul, actually. "CDs..what vinyl was in the '90s..Cheap!".
 
I have had similar experiences - the used classical (and even Jazz, often) discs that I find are almost always in excellent condition, even if the cases show use or wear. I am sure a sociologist would be better than me to comment as to why this seems to be a truism. :)

Edit: And I am sorry to read about your recent misfortune. Hang in there ... it will get better.
 
I agree: about 20 % of my cds were bought used, but always in perfect shape. I guess that a vast majority of people who listens to classical music has the habit of storing the CDs in their cases immediately after playing them. A similar signature could be seen in buying used LPs. Perhaps a clue could be found if it is true that the proportion of serious collectors versus occasional music buyers is larger among the classical music community, as my personal experience seems to indicate. Anyway, this is a good reason for exploring classical music.

PS: a good indication that classical music lovers behave in a way that is not that of the majority of music lovers could be found in this interview to Naxos founder ( http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3961903&postcount=10441 ), Here there are a few lines:

Gramophone: Describe the challenges the rapid growth of online music has posed you.

Klaus Heymann: We have to be quite clear about the fact that there will be the CD – or a physical carrier – for many more years to come. The classical CD is not declining at the same rate as pop or rock. This year, if we look at various territories for the first four or five months, it’s actually pretty stable – some are down, some are up, but on average I think CDs this year will be the same as in 2009. We don’t have that rapid decline.

G: How would you explain that – is it the collecting aspect connected to classical music?

KH: I think we are basically down to the core collector. And I think that’s at a stable level. Any changes in sales are more due to repertoire, or one-offs – like in Japan, where Harmonia Mundi sold 100,000 copies of Nobuyuki Tsujii [pianist, and Gold Medal winner of the Van Cliburn Competition]. These kind of things can change it dramatically. But by and large I think we’ve now found a fairly stable market for physical product. Beyond that of course we all look at where will it happen online – what is there beyond the physical business? And it looks like downloads will not be it.
 
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An alternative theory would be that casual listeners bought some of the classical music or received it as a gift, be it on CD or LP, and likewise played it very few times, thus accounting for the good physical condition of the medium. Supporting this hypothesis is the realization that occasionally you can find unopened classical CDs and LPs - the original purchasor was not into classical music enough to open their purchase or gift when they got home with it. Just a theory I've been working on after making the same observation many of you have, that used classical music is very often found in better condition relative to other genres. I suspect, however, that my theory accounts only for part of the obeserved condition. Rather, most of the classical music was bought by people who had a tendency to appreciate music more and therefore take better care of it, as has been said by other previously.
 
I don't have much experience with used classical CDs, but I have a ton of used classical on vinyl, and the same holds true -- it is generally in much better shape than the equivalent rock or jazz. Partially I'm sure it's because few raucous, alcholol-fueled parties involved classical music, which is where a lot of albums get trashed. Also I would guess that the average classical listener has a decent system, compared with rock that has been through a college dorm.

On another note, I happened to catch the PBS show on the Van Cliburn competition last night, and saw the amazing Noboyuki, mentioned in the interview above. The other performers were technically amazing (and the other fellow who shared the gold medal played with feeling), but the emotion communicated by Noboyuki was amazing. Good call, judges.
 
This is why I can't bring myself to ride on the bandwagon of so-called 'PC-Fi'. When it comes to classical music, those mp3s and other digital files just can't deal with the library - at least not yet.
 
NapoleonXIV said:
Supporting this hypothesis is the realization that occasionally you can find unopened classical CDs and LPs - .
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An alternative explanation for this is that it was bought by (or given to) a collector (e.g., as a part of another colelction) with thousands of recordings, and didn't have a priority to listen to that one. I speak now for myself, and that I am a serious (the word would be "passionate") classical music collector.
 
Wow, when I posted this I expected to find it buried in the forum the next day, I'm really surprised at how much you guys have to say about it. :)

DC said:
Edit: And I am sorry to read about your recent misfortune. Hang in there ... it will get better.
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That's very nice of you, thanks, though I should note it was more of a major lifestyle decision, taking a huge chance for once and leaving a situation that was making me absolutely miserable. In other words, I put myself into this situation voluntarily. :thmbsp:

guiller said:
I agree: about 20 % of my cds were bought used, but always in perfect shape. I guess that a vast majority of people who listens to classical music has the habit of storing the CDs in their cases immediately after playing them. A similar signature could be seen in buying used LPs. Perhaps a clue could be found if it is true that the proportion of serious collectors versus occasional music buyers is larger among the classical music community, as my personal experience seems to indicate. Anyway, this is a good reason for exploring classical music.
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Guiller your comments are particularly spot-on I think. Of course we're all speculating here, but personally I immediately put away all my CDs, and for some reason, kind of like how John said they seem more "worthy," I'm even more careful with my classical CDs. Of course, I'm like that with all my lps because to do otherwise is inviting disaster.

Now this I find particularly interesting:

guiller said:
But by and large I think we’ve now found a fairly stable market for physical product. Beyond that of course we all look at where will it happen online – what is there beyond the physical business? And it looks like downloads will not be it. [/i]
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I assume he's still only talking about the "classical music" collector, but it's intriguing to me that at this point someone would assert that downloading is not going to be the way of the future, even considering the nature of the person who listens to a particular genre. That entire excerpt from the interview is quite interesting. I have more to say about this below.

GreatTone said:
I don't have much experience with used classical CDs, but I have a ton of used classical on vinyl, and the same holds true -- it is generally in much better shape than the equivalent rock or jazz. Partially I'm sure it's because few raucous, alcholol-fueled parties involved classical music, which is where a lot of albums get trashed. Also I would guess that the average classical listener has a decent system, compared with rock that has been through a college dorm.
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Yep, and I've also noticed it's much easier to find still-sealed classical on vinyl, which is something I really try to do because surface noise can be particularly annoying with classical music.

davidro said:
This is why I can't bring myself to ride on the bandwagon of so-called 'PC-Fi'. When it comes to classical music, those mp3s and other digital files just can't deal with the library - at least not yet.
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I think this was the point of what Klaus Heymann said in the interview excerpt above. For the most part, those of us who listen to classical music a lot tend to be collectors, and/or prefer a physical medium. Of course this is a broad generalization and I'm sure there are lots of exceptions, but I've been saying over and over again on AK that I have no intention of jumping on the PC/hard drive-based hi-fi system bandwagon, though I recognize that it now clearly seems to be the way of the future in hi-fi audio.

Or is it?

Thanks for the well-thought out responses, this turned into a good discussion. By all means please add any other thoughts, I'm interested. And by the way, today I got the following Naxos CD (speaking of them) in the mail, $3: Early English Organ Music: Volume 1

And what do you know? The disc is spotless, save for a few specs of dust. :banana:
 
I'm truly amazed that I have gotten so much prestine classical music first on vinyl and now in CD.

Well, about a year and a half ago my father gave me his stereo and I brought her home and set her up in the living room. The stereo I rec'd from him is a story in itself. Quality hand made cabinetry he had made while passing through Japan, a tropical wood he purchased and shipped up from the Phillipines, late 50's, early 60's, Sansui, Gerard, Sony reel to reel.

I have lived without a quality stereo for over 20 years. Marriage, children, etc. Anyway, after I set up the stereo, I soon discovered I needed material. I hit the thrift stores. Got some of the early crooners and everything by Jackie Gleason in a matter of about 2 weeks. In my search for those old rock albums, I kept coming across these used classical records for cheap that except for just a little dust, were near perfect . . . but I never had a passion for classical . . . oh, I would often listen to it on the radio during the day when listening to NPR, but I didn't consider myself a fan.

You know the rest of the story.

But since obtaining a fairly respectable classical vinyl collection, over about the last 6 months or so I am really starting to see the CD bins in the thrift stores bulge! People are getting rid of their CD's due to their preference for their mp3 libraries. I'm finding beautiful CD's of classical and to a lesser extent, Jazz.

If this trend continues, I predict that we should have several good years of CD harvesting to come! Ain't life grand!
 
faradyne451 said:
You know the rest of the story.
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No we don't, please elaborate. :D


faradyne451 said:
If this trend continues, I predict that we should have several good years of CD harvesting to come! Ain't life grand!
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Yes it is grand, and it's funny, you and I definitely share a sense of enthusiasm about the coming wave of abandoned CDs.

We've actually talked about this in a few fairly recent threads, it's something I'm really looking forward to. I assume at least some of the used classical CDs I've been buying on Amazon are the result of the rush to dump CD collections in favor of mp3s. But it gets even better: As I mentioned above, hard drive/PC-based hi-fi systems are the way of the future as of right now. I'm not sure the extent to which this has already started, but I predict audiophiles are going to be selling off their fancy CD players in the coming years. :banana: Not that I need another great CD player, technically, but I'm sure I'll upgrade some day...
 
I ain't no audiophile but I wouldn't mind some ridiculously cheap SACD/CD players abandoned by them audiophiles who converted to internet radio and hard-drive sources.

I'm content to suffer the tiresome process of changing CDs. I mean I play vinyls and even do overhang adjustments every now and then!
 
I really don't think that where I live is that unique . . . but maybe it is . . . Great CD gear is popping up here and there for dirt cheap. Decks I thought were a steal a year ago . . . i.e. equipment I could barely afford at retail back in the day I bought for $8-10. I bought a handful and the upgrades just keep coming. I've been giving back CD/Tape/VCR decks I bought at thrift stores last year because I have been able to upgrade just by watching, waiting, and being discriminant!

Anyway, we are nearly at the point where we can select through several used CD's and walk away with some awesome additions to our collections that are more times than not in great shape! Walked away with 10 (3 of which were 2 discs) for $20. I don't know about you but having great music any time day or night is such a treat!

Happy Hunting!
 
The enjoyment of classical music certainly takes a jump when the audio gear is upgraded - in my case, I had been making do with a boom box and extension computer speakers for a long time, until being bitten by the AK bug a few years ago.

To me Vinyl requires serious listening to fully enjoy it and to put up with a more inconvenient medium. That's why the abundant supply of good condition classical records has been enjoyable. My ears are not young enough or well trained enough to hear a real decline in music quality with CDs. My limited budget is also enjoying finding a lot of good artists of several genre on CD.

Another thing about getting CD's, if you have the HD space, you can rip the ones you like best and be ready if you ever want to make a server part of your system.

Regards,

D-Ray
 
Out of topic but does anyone know what's up with Nagano's Mahler #8 SACD? They're ridiculously expensive now. I've ordered one from Amazon Canada (the only 'cheap' place for this CD) but they can only ship it when they get to have it!
 
I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that people who buy and listen to classical music are people who take good care if it. OTOH, the CDs I've seen or purchased online that were in laughably poor condition were things like Jennifer Lopez, Eminem and Missy Elliott. I think b/c the latter tend to get hauled around in book bags and car floors, whereas classical titles tend to stay in the living room. I know mine do. I can't listen to classical in the car b/c of the dynamics; i can't hear half of it, so I turn it up, and then WHAM! I have to turn it down again. Always going for the volume knob. I just gave up and now only play classical when I'm sitting listening to it. (And yes, i do listen to J-Lo Marshall Mathers and Missy in the car.)

d-ray657 said:
The enjoyment of classical music certainly takes a jump when the audio gear is upgraded - in my case, I had been making do with a boom box and extension computer speakers for a long time, until being bitten by the AK bug a few years ago.(...)

Regards,

D-Ray
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No doubt. One of my favorite memories that helped me decide on my Shanling amp (over a Cambridge Audio, a Music Hall, a Rotel, and even a Krell) was that with that amp only, I could hear the air pressure caused by the opening chords of Beethoven's 5th traveling around the concert hall in the recording.--pretty thrilling. (It was Von Karajan BTW, pretty sure from his 1977 cycle on DG--or did he do one in the early 80's?)
 
guiller said:
May I join you both? :banana:
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I assumed you already had. :)

d-ray657 said:
Another thing about getting CD's, if you have the HD space, you can rip the ones you like best and be ready if you ever want to make a server part of your system.

Regards,

D-Ray
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That would be blasphemy, D-Ray. Please watch what you say in my thread. :thmbsp:

Brett a said:
I can't listen to classical in the car b/c of the dynamics; i can't hear half of it, so I turn it up, and then WHAM! I have to turn it down again. Always going for the volume knob. I just gave up and now only play classical when I'm sitting listening to it.
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Same here, but aside from that it usually just doesn't feel right to me. Plus it makes me drive too slow.
 
One more thing, in response to D-Ray's comments about the correlation between listening to classical music and having a good sound system. Of course, this could be said of all types of music, but let's face it, with good recordings, one tends to encounter more frequent and more impressive demonstrations of wide dynamic range with classical music. Additionally, classical benefits hugely, IMO, from the detail retrieval offered by a good hi-fi system, provided it doesn't become distracting. Best of all, for me at least, is timbrel accuracy, rich tone colors, the instruments really sounding like they're supposed to.

Also, sound staging and imaging are a little more relevant with live acoustic music, so those are other potential enhancements.
 
Mr. Lin said:
One more thing, in response to D-Ray's comments about the correlation between listening to classical music and having a good sound system. Of course, this could be said of all types of music, but let's face it, with good recordings, one tends to encounter more frequent and more impressive demonstrations of wide dynamic range with classical music. Additionally, classical benefits hugely, IMO, from the detail retrieval offered by a good hi-fi system, provided it doesn't become distracting. Best of all, for me at least, is timbrel accuracy, rich tone colors, the instruments really sounding like they're supposed to.

Also, sound staging and imaging are a little more relevant with live acoustic music, so those are other potential enhancements.
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My interest in classical has definitely had a correlation to the improvement of my sound system (and the very good classical station here in Chicago, which my tube tuner stays locked on). The dynamics and, the other end, the subtlety, not to mention the soundstage and accurate timbre of unamplified instruments is just mesmerizing on a good system. It was hard to appreciate it's grandeur on my old system, to be honest.
 
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