Stylus Microscopes

Karma16

Super Member
HI All,
A few months ago I started a thread concerning stylus microscopes. Since a real stylus microscope is a rare item and expensive many of you wrote that you were going to explore alternatives.

I've not heard anything about your experiences. How did they turn out? Did you find anything that was close to useful? The analog world needs to know.

Thanks, Sparky
 
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A magnifier of 5x will give you a decent look at a stylus to see anything gross and horrible.

25x will give you a look at surface details. You can pick up a good small magnifier from Edmund Scientific Company.

The fancy stereoscopic microscope is largely a marketing tool. You can get the customer's old stylus in view and then let the customer have a look. Then you can point out terrible things, like a small lump of crud or a tiny wear spot, and convince the customer to buy a new stylus or cartridge.

Fred Longworth
 
HI,
I suggest that both of you do a search to find the original thread. You are so far off base that you cannot imagine the distance. If you do the search you might learn something. Please do it. What you are suggesting is simply not useful at all.

BTW, I'm writing to those who showed some true creativity in the previous thread. You know who you are.

Sparky
 
I'm about to buy a Wild - Herrbrug microscope and light. Somebody stop me!
I can't pass it up.
 
If the 'original thread' is so important to this one Sparky how about you include a link to it?

A few have posted here with their opinions and they are entitled to them - a little less attitude might make for some useful discussion. This subject does interest me and I bet many others - let's keep it constructive and cordial instead of scaring everybody off.
 
HI Bill,
Ok. Really didn't think the subject had general interest. Here is the link:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87723&highlight=microscope

I tried this and it works.

Folks, please do me a favor. I'll be happy to answer questions but read the thread first. Probably most of your questions will be answered there. There were many really good posts and good thinking.

And Bill, I see nothing wrong with my post. I was not negative, just truthful. Read the thread and think you will see that is true. However, I should have provided the link. Again, I'm surprised that there is any further interest. I thought I would only draw from the original links posters. I'm happy there is additional interest.

Sparky
 
I would tend to agree, I think that a higher magnification than 25X would be useful. I've tried some of those cheapo handheld things and it takes all your effort just to get the stylus into the field of vision. For $10 you get what you paid for.
Then again, some people seemed to have an easier time finding stuff with microscopes than I did in science class. Maybe the colorblindness had something to do with it.
 
Karma16 said:
HI,
I suggest that both of you do a search to find the original thread.

Sparky

You asked the question, started the thread asking for member's experience then jump down their throats. . .

If you want us to comment on a post of yours tell us so and provide the link. . .
 
HI,
Gosh, I can't possibly be more sorry. I should have provided the link and I did. But if you read my first post and then the thread that I linked to you will see that I was after the experiences of those members that were trying some experimental hi mag ideas.

The fact that some of you all seem to be offended is a shame. I didn't mean to. I'll repeat that I'm happy you are taking an interest. It is interesting and I welcome your further ideas. But read the thread first rather than jump on me...again.

Sparky
 
gyusher said:
You asked the question, started the thread asking for member's experience then jump down their throats. . .

If you want us to comment on a post of yours tell us so and provide the link. . .
He did already. Please look two posts above yours...

Please go easy on Sparky folks. I agree that things could have been phrased somewhat more politely. However he really does know his stuff. I learned a lot by reading this thread last time around. :yes:

But Sparky you should understand that when you don't provide the link that you are referring to, that this sort of response is going to be typical (as will many uninformed responses from new people to the thread who will not read the other thread).
 
goldear said:
He did already. Please look two posts above yours...
).

I was talking about post number 4 and above. . .During the time it took me to think about what I wrote and got it written things became a little clearer. . .
 
HI Guy's
Thanks for your forgivness. It was kind of a rough day at work. I just went back and reread the linked thread again. I had forgotten how good it really was. Lot of good ideas for the do it your selfers. I hope some of the ideas worked out and we learn of them.

Sparky
 
Far off base? I think not.

In general when customers arrive at the store requesting a new stylus, it has either been mangled through customer abuse or is highly contaminated. In other cases, it is suffering from obvious cantilever failure.

Audio-Technica AT607 will generally clean up the stylus and provide clear sound.

Every once in a while, someone asks that a stylus be inspected to determine wear. I have long been suspicious of the "stylus wear" game, because in my city (San Diego) several prominant stereo retailers judged EVERY stylus worn, just as in the old days EVERY tube was weak. I try to run my store on ethics, not avarice, a paradigm that has stood me in good stead since 1973.

In any case, I have an exceptionally steady hand, and I have found that the irregularities in the wear, or normal wear in all but the earliest phases, can be successfully identified with 25x magnification. You need to have a good eye and a very steady hand -- and especially you need to control the incident light.

I will concede this point: that in the highest-end applications, where the owner is looking for optimal anti-skate adjustments based on comparative wear, and where the owner is willing to replace a stylus as soon as wear can be detected, and where the table and the arm are good enough so that any of these considerations makes a difference . . . that the higher power magnification may be necessary.

But I do not carry the elephant gun every time I go hunting.

* * * * *

As for anti-skate, yes only an optimal value is achievable with a pivoted tonearm. For those interested in a detailed explanation of why, complete with mathematical proof, all leading to a strong case for the advantage of a linear tracking arm (no intermodulation distortion), there is a definitive article in the JAES, dated approximately 1979, by physicist Stanley Lipschitz.

* * * * *

Best,

Fred Longworth
 
HI Fred,
When I spoke of being off base I was referring to the magnification. For what the thread was talking about 25X is simply not adequate. You definitely cannot see the wear facets with enough resolution (if at all) at 25X. If you ever get a chance (not much of a chance these days) to use a real stylus microscope I'm sure you will agree.

As for motives, I could agree depending on the retailer. I know the first time I saw a Shure stylus microscope, its purchase was justified as a tool for selling replacement styli. I personally don't really have a problem with this since worn styli are very bad but it is a matter of degree. So it depends on the person. With practice one can predict the life left on a stylus by what the microscope shows and that is how the instrument was used at the store where I worked.

I found your comments to be unduly cynical and did not represent the sales force I am familiar with. I will defend them. But I won't deny that bad apples exist.

Sparky
 
Hello sparky.

A bit of progress so far, a large number of other higher priority projects put this one on the back burner for a while.

I've just picked it up again recently as I'd like a closer look at the stylus on a number of cartridges I've acquired recently. I'm currently in final stages of putting together a couple of adjustable stands for small LED flashlights. Not sure if they will work as they are 5 LED versions and may require a lens mask to focus the light a bit. I'll post the results whatever they may turn out to be.
 
absolon said:
Hello sparky.

A bit of progress so far, a large number of other higher priority projects put this one on the back burner for a while.

I've just picked it up again recently as I'd like a closer look at the stylus on a number of cartridges I've acquired recently. I'm currently in final stages of putting together a couple of adjustable stands for small LED flashlights. Not sure if they will work as they are 5 LED versions and may require a lens mask to focus the light a bit. I'll post the results whatever they may turn out to be.
I'm looking forward to seeing your results. :yes: This is something that I have also thought about trying, but I am just WAY too busy to mess with this right now. :sigh:
 
here's the first kick at the cat, a VMS20E that came in on a well-used YP-D4 I recently picked up for refurb.

Lit with a single LED from each side at about 3" distance and 5 or so degrees above the horizontal plane. Cantilever enters from top of picture and I suspect picture is transposed from side to side, but haven't tested yet to confirm orientation. Also some software glitches that prevent me from exporting more than one picture so can't include the fully lit picture to show locations of spots relative to stylus tip.

I'll post more as I work out the details and the best methods.
 

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absolon said:
here's the first kick at the cat, a VMS20E that came in on a well-used YP-D4 I recently picked up for refurb.

Lit with a single LED from each side at about 3" distance and 5 or so degrees above the horizontal plane. Cantilever enters from top of picture and I suspect picture is transposed from side to side, but haven't tested yet to confirm orientation. Also some software glitches that prevent me from exporting more than one picture so can't include the fully lit picture to show locations of spots relative to stylus tip.

I'll post more as I work out the details and the best methods.

HI absolon,
Hey, good work! I wish the picture was bigger but you are definitely on the right track. The wear facets are clearly visible and the contrast is nearly perfect; even better than the Shure microscope. I know the picture size can limit what I am seeing but the magnification seems a bit low. However, the image is useful. What mag are you using?

I think you fully grasp the concept of high mag, the proper point of view, and the lighting requirements. This is great and I love it. This is the first DIY effort I have seen that seems to have real promise. Please keep us informed of your progress.

BTW, the lighting angle on the Shure is a little different. I would judge it to be closer to 20 degrees from horizontal. Also, using LED's provides more of a point source. The Shure uses regular, small, 115V light bulbs. You may have a better system. I suspect that there is no fixed requirement as long as the facets are reflected. So, your angles may be just as valid as Shure's or even better.

One thing to consider is set up. Your contrast is so good that I can imagine finding the tip in the scopes field of view could be a problem. You might consider providing a "set up" light that will give more generalized illumination then switch to the LED's for critical work. Just an idea.

Sparky
 
I picked up a "GSS Blister Viewer Microscope" at a thrift a few days ago. It's a 'school' microscope, quite sturdy and with decent optics. It's still made and sells new for <$70; it also shows up on eBay for around $10.

Available objectives are 25X, 50X and 100X, all pretty inexpensive. The fact that the subject is lit from the side and below at the same time is useful when looking at three dimensional items like styli. The maker's website is at: http://www.blistermicroscope.com/
 
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