Just mounted: AT-440mla on a Thorens Jubilee

Rotoplooker

Rotoplooker

Well-Known Member
Hey all,

Just wanted to say that I had a fun weekend (this means I actually had time to play with the system!) and got my new Audio Technica AT-440mla mounted and tweaked on my Thorens TD-147 Jubilee.

Thought I would take a minute and share my findings.

For the sake of comparison, I listened to 6 records before removing the Grado Black. After calibrating the AT, the difference as soon as the needle dropped was quite noticeable. I will try to avoid all the colourful wording but It immediately came across as clearer, more accurate and airy. The detail and imaging was remarkeable! I know people have claimed the AT is too bright or forward but IMHO, this is certainly not the case. I started to think after the first record that maybe there was something wrong with my Grado but I don't think so. The Black has low hours and I bought it new. Contrary to popular discussion, my Black never had any hum, but looking back, I always seemed to be dealing with some inner groove distortion. I just always thought that was related to my old Thorens being susch an old style mechanical setup. I tried many times to remount and calibrate the Grado, but it never went away.
I played and noted the sound on an inner track from Frank Zappa's "Apostrophe"-Uncle Remus, just prior to swapping and it was there in the piano, chorus and solos but the At just sailed through with sweet silky ease(oops, colourful wording!!)

Looking back, I liked the Grado Black when I first got it and I was probably drawn to that warm, lush sound, but having since ran the AT, I really feel I am getting much more faithful reproduction of music. It really sounds great.

I think the AT is putting me much closer to the sound I had way back when I ran my Grace F9 on this setup (which I'd often thought about re-tipping) and possibly even exceeding some of the Grace's characteristics. But who knows, that was a long time ago..

Lovin' the AT!
 
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Glad to hear you're happy with your new cart. I'm running the same cart on my 1200. I'm probably close to the break in period (50-75 hours, I believe). I'll have to listen to Uncle Remus later today or tomorrow and see if I notice any distortion in the piano or elsewhere.

EDIT: It looks like we both have FZ-themed screen names... albeit somewhat obscure FZ-themed screen names. I probably wouldn't have caught yours had I not followed along with the the lyrics to Joe's Garage back in high school.
 
Yep, I love my 440 too, the Microline tip is just great. Been using that style of tip since the late 80's, prior to that I was using the Linear contact tip on a AT-125LC, which was also decent.
 
It sounds as if the 440MLA is nice upgrade from the Grado. But, at about twice the price(3 dB !).
 
I also have the 440MLa I just got it and am very pleased with the sound nice and clean and clear. Can`t wait to get it broken in!! And reasonably priced from electronics expo 77.93. I have no affiliation with this company!
 
To be fair..

It is true that the Grado Black is a lower cost item. Point noted and taken. And for the most part, I enjoyed it.

synclavier82-What can I say, you have a keen eye and excellent taste in music!
 
I have the AT 440MLa mounted on my TD-145, I think it is a great match for the MkII arm, give it around 100 hours and it will really start to sing! I found it somewhat harsh and forward for around 20 hours then it seemed to settle in and smooth right out. :thmbsp:
 
Divotdog said:
I have the AT 440MLa mounted on my TD-145, I think it is a great match for the MkII arm, give it around 100 hours and it will really start to sing! I found it somewhat harsh and forward for around 20 hours then it seemed to settle in and smooth right out. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

Wow, 100 hours? I thought mine was nearing the beak in point, but I know I didn't play it for 100 hours yet.... Maybe getting close though.
 
Nice work, Divot!

Divotdog said:
I have the AT 440MLa mounted on my TD-145, I think it is a great match for the MkII arm, give it around 100 hours and it will really start to sing! I found it somewhat harsh and forward for around 20 hours then it seemed to settle in and smooth right out. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

Divotdog, yes, I watched your "Pimp my 145" posts and enjoyed the journey. Nice work-I only wish I were as talented. During your At 440 mla re-fitting, I wonder if you also noticed the arm recalibration counter weight repositioning. If I recall, you had a Shure on there before...
In any event, when I setup the AT, I had to back off the counter-weight considerably. I guess the 1 extra gram cartridge weight accounts for this.

Back to the listening tests:

Last night I Re-played John Entwistle's Whistle rhymes-a Decca/Track Records pressing from early 70's. I love the music but was always puzzled and dissapointed by how muddy the sound was. (I have 2 copies-bought a second cleaner copy in an attempt to get a better lp, but both sound the same.)The record is in great shape and I vacuum cleaned and re-listened on the Grado the night before to re-confirm what I always knew.

Again, as soon as the AT needle dropped, the piano was "tinkley" and Peter Frampton's solos were clean and razor sharp. Make no mistake, the record still has an inherently warm sound, but now it is very energetic and more to the point, crisp(for the first time ever) and VERY listenable.

I've been playing as much as time allows to get the cart broken in but keep remarking on how great it already sounds.
 
Just out of curiosity, rotoplooker, what are you tracking your cart at?

I'm tracking mine at 1.7... I heard somewhere this cart liked to be at the upper end of the range, but I'm not sure.
 
I now have tracking set at the optimal, according to AT, which is 1.4g, but I originally set it up at 1.6.

Is your SL1200 a KAB mod and/or which cart did you use prior to the AT?
 
Rotoplooker said:
I now have tracking set at the optimal, according to AT, which is 1.4g, but I originally set it up at 1.6.

Is your SL1200 a KAB mod and/or which cart did you use prior to the AT?
Click to expand...
Mine is not a KAB mod. The MLa is the first cart I've ever owned. I was originally running mine at 1.4, but I switched to 1.7 a couple weeks ago. I'll try switching back to 1.4 later tonight and see if I notice a difference.

Well, aside from the one that was integrated into the tonearm of the AT-PL50.
 
Rotoplooker said:
Divotdog, yes, I watched your "Pimp my 145" posts and enjoyed the journey. Nice work-I only wish I were as talented. During your At 440 mla re-fitting, I wonder if you also noticed the arm recalibration counter weight repositioning. If I recall, you had a Shure on there before...
In any event, when I setup the AT, I had to back off the counter-weight considerably. I guess the 1 extra gram cartridge weight accounts for this.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your kind comments, stay tuned to that thread, we have a long way to go yet! I had used a Grado and a Shure and yes I did notice that I had to reposition the counter weight by quite a little ways, I have been tracking the 440MLa at 1.7 since around 50 or 60 hours and it seems to like it, I did notice that it is very picky about VTA. :thmbsp:
 
Divotdog said:
Thank you for your kind comments, stay tuned to that thread, we have a long way to go yet! I had used a Grado and a Shure and yes I did notice that I had to reposition the counter weight by quite a little ways, I have been tracking the 440MLa at 1.7 since around 50 or 60 hours and it seems to like it, I did notice that it is very picky about VTA. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...
In what way?
 
synclavier82 said:
In what way?
Click to expand...

I just found a very small sweet spot in the VTA, it sounds O.K. on either side of it, but when you hit it the cart really opens up and sounds fantastic, I have a suspicion that a lot of the complaints about a hot top end in this cart are due to improper VTA settings, :scratch2:
my entire set up (see sig) will bring out the worst in a in a hot cart.
 
Rotoplooker said:
It is true that the Grado Black is a lower cost item. Point noted and taken. And for the most part, I enjoyed it.
Click to expand...

And that there's a very, very narrow window for proper setup with Grado carts, otherwise you'll have problems like inner groove distortion and a dull sound.

However, the 440MLa should certainly be outperforming the Black. I think the brightness you've heard about pertained mostly to the 440ML, without the "a." Enjoy!
 
Divotdog, Re: your sweetspot-where would you say your tonearm sits during play; parallel to the record or business end(CART)down? Reviewing the early images in your "Thorens TD145 MkII Project" thread, it looks like it sits pretty level to the playing surface.


And Mr.Lin, you're right about the Grado, it seemed to put up more of a fight than the Grace F9 or the AT.
 
I have a ML440 in a modded Thorens TD320 with a TP16 tonearm. For VTA, this is optimally set for a thick record. When I take a disk out to play it, I hold the record by the edges and shake it. If it wobbles, I put a felt pad over the turntable rubber platter mat. That approximately matches what VTA should be.

I also have a Grado Gold in a (less) modded Thorens TD318 with a TP21 tonearm. Both these were set up by ripnread Dave in the Boston area. He's very precise and I thought it was more useful to pay something to have it done than to experiment. The grado sounds great also. At this point it's just a matter of presentation. The ML440 is more linear and plays worn records well, and the grado is warmer and plays better records well.
 
Rotoplooker said:
Divotdog, Re: your sweetspot-where would you say your tonearm sits during play; parallel to the record or business end(CART)down? Reviewing the early images in your "Thorens TD145 MkII Project" thread, it looks like it sits pretty level to the playing surface.


And Mr.Lin, you're right about the Grado, it seemed to put up more of a fight than the Grace F9 or the AT.
Click to expand...

I eyeballed the tonearm to level, and then used playing cards as shims so that I would be able to have some measurable results (one playing card = .010), I then inserted one card at a time and raised the arm until the sound became too bright, then lowered the arm one card at a time until the sound started to become a little muddy, back to raising the arm until I found the sweet spot which seems to be about one card (.010) low on the rear. I now keep my stack of cards near the table and can adjust periodically depending on what I am listening to.
 
audiodon657 said:
At this point it's just a matter of presentation. The ML440 is more linear and plays worn records well, and the grado is warmer and plays better records well.
Click to expand...

Once setups not an issue I think this is what it comes down to. They're very different sounding cartridges, some people will probably enjoy one sound more than another. Both have advantages and disadvantages, we can't really say one is definitively "better" than the other.
 
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