Thoughts about Bang & Olufsen Beogram 1602?

ricohman

ricohman

Adventure Rider
There is one for sale locally. It is supposed to have a new stylus and is in excellent shape.
Any thoughts on this turntable? He will take $125. I have read that it will only take original parts.
But if I can just plug it in an use it that would be a bonus. I could buy something cheaper on ebay but then I would have to get it shipped and thats always risky.
 
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No craigslist up where you live?

Unless you are in love with or a collector of B&O, I wouldn't recommend it, especially at that price. With any B&O you have to consider that replacement cartridges will be expensive, the cheapest from sound-smith being $150. So unless you are POSITIVE that the stylus has low hours or is in pristine condition, it's an investment of $275 minimum.
 
Which cartridge is on it? They go up in value as the number goes down. Check on the SoundSmith web site for cartridge replacements just in case yours get damaged. As long as it's running well and the cart is good, they are fine sounding tables :)
 
I'm going to vote yes also, provided the cartridge is nearly new as claimed. The stylus is NOT replaceable... have to go for the whole cartridge, and Soundsmith is the only source. I've heard good things about the Soundsmith products, so it seems that even though there isn't any choice (other than a few grades within the Soundsmith line), $150 for a good cartridge isn't ridiculous. I'm saving my $$$ for one for my Beogram 3404.
 
I am not a fan of B&O turntables. The reasons are as follows:

(1) The B&O company has horrible service manuals, usually without supplements to deal with production changes. As a result, you will often encounter a machine where the schematic and board layouts do not agree with the actual machine.

(2) B&O does not supply parts.

(3) B&O does not provide technical assistance.

(4) If you call them for parts or technical assistance, they display what we call on the streets as "attitude."

(5) Their cartridge and stylus are integral, so, as with a moving coil, their moving magnets require an entirely new cartridge/stylus. This costs a fortune.

(6) Their equipment is fairly hard to disassemble. As a result, even simple problems take substantial time to fix.

There you have it.

Fred
 
Hmmm. Maybe I should pass on this one.
I do know of a Dual 510 that I could get for $20 and it is in good working condition.
 
hakaplan said:
No craigslist up where you live?

Unless you are in love with or a collector of B&O, I wouldn't recommend it, especially at that price. With any B&O you have to consider that replacement cartridges will be expensive, the cheapest from sound-smith being $150. So unless you are POSITIVE that the stylus has low hours or is in pristine condition, it's an investment of $275 minimum.
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+1

Howard is correct. Your choices for a cartridge are B&O, B&O and B&O. No adjustments for anything, not much of an upgrade path.
 
Back in the early 80's I had a B&O 1700 and I put much higher end B&O cartridge in it and it sounded good.

I had a JH turntable as well, it was a cheap unit, I fitted it with a Goldring cartridge worth a quarter of the one in the B&O and guess what we couldn't tell the difference.

It sounded just as good as the B&O.
 
Everything said here agrees with my experience. I had a Beogram 1900 for 12 years starting in '75. On the upside they generally have excellent suspension, will track just about anything at very low, record life prolonging, tracking force, and will hold there own against many more expensive cartridge and turntable combos. Since the cartridge, arm and table are engineered as a system, there are less compromises to deal with.
 
is there a way to tell if the cartridge is on its last legs? I am considering the purchase of a Beogram and the extra $150 for a new cartridge makes it not economic.
 
I almost bought a Beogram last week at GW but it didnt have a cart.
Looking at the very unfamiliar connector on there I suspected these carts would be expensive and I passed on it.
But the prices you guys mention are even higher than I expected, glad i didnt buy, it sure was good looking though! :)
 
I'd avoid a B&O TT like the plague. IMO they simply just aren't good enough to justify the expense, with the only exception being those who love and collect B&O and want to match their system(s). For the rest of us - for the reasons already accurately noted above - the best move is a pass.
 
Kneedeepinit said:
is there a way to tell if the cartridge is on its last legs? I am considering the purchase of a Beogram and the extra $150 for a new cartridge makes it not economic.
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The cantilever suspension is the weak point on these.

If you look at where the cantilever exits the cartridge body, the cantilever should be centered side-to-side in the hole, and between 1/3 to 1/2 of the way off the bottom. If you gently touch the stylus (perhaps using a clean sheet of paper or something to avoid getting dirt and oil on the stylus) with enough force to deflect the cantilever suspension a bit (as if it were being set down on a record) the cantilever should respond smoothly to the deflection and return to its original position. I've seen the suspensions fail where the cantilever will sort of stay wherever it gets pushed, or it'll sort of jump or flop from one position to another.

I think there's more info on the sound-smith.com website.

Alienz said:
I almost bought a Beogram last week at GW but it didnt have a cart.
Looking at the very unfamiliar connector on there I suspected these carts would be expensive and I passed on it.
But the prices you guys mention are even higher than I expected, glad i didnt buy, it sure was good looking though! :)
Click to expand...

I happen to think that the cartridges have good sound, commensurate with their price. You can't get a cheap junky cartridge for a B&O. You can get a moderately priced, excellent sounding cartridge. You can also spend more to get a superb cartridge that's actually priced pretty well compared to similar quality cartridges that fit other tables.
 
Fred Longworth said:
I am not a fan of B&O turntables. The reasons are as follows:

(1) The B&O company has horrible service manuals, usually without supplements to deal with production changes. As a result, you will often encounter a machine where the schematic and board layouts do not agree with the actual machine.

(2) B&O does not supply parts.

(3) B&O does not provide technical assistance.

(4) If you call them for parts or technical assistance, they display what we call on the streets as "attitude."

(5) Their cartridge and stylus are integral, so, as with a moving coil, their moving magnets require an entirely new cartridge/stylus. This costs a fortune.

(6) Their equipment is fairly hard to disassemble. As a result, even simple problems take substantial time to fix.

There you have it.

Fred
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HI Fred,
I agree totally. The only problem is when they are working right, which is most of the time, they can be lovely. I'm speaking especially of their linear models. Plus, I love their styling.

You are looking at them from a repairmans point of view which I share. Personally, I would not buy one now. But at one time I had a new 4004 which I loved. I think now they are a bad investment.

Sparky
 
More B&O for me. Bwahahaahaa.

Actually, I wouldn't pay hundreds for one today either. Aside from the first one I bought new in the '80s, all the others I have cost $20 or less. And I love my ~$500 Soundsmith SMMC-2!
 
Just to answer this post:

Fred Longworth said:
I am not a fan of B&O turntables. The reasons are as follows:

(1) The B&O company has horrible service manuals, usually without supplements to deal with production changes. As a result, you will often encounter a machine where the schematic and board layouts do not agree with the actual machine.

I don't mind the extra work when running into such problems.

(2) B&O does not supply parts.

I have never encountered a B&O turntable (have been through almost 20) when special part were needed.

(3) B&O does not provide technical assistance.

I wouldn't either, the youngest B&O turntables are soon turning 20. I have only had positive experiences with them sending manuals to me.

(4) If you call them for parts or technical assistance, they display what we call on the streets as "attitude."

No "attitude" for my record, neither has my Father experienced it.

(5) Their cartridge and stylus are integral, so, as with a moving coil, their moving magnets require an entirely new cartridge/stylus. This costs a fortune.

A retipping is so much easier, can be done for €99 and will sound more like it sounded when new than the (IMO) harsh Soundsmith cartridges.

(6) Their equipment is fairly hard to disassemble. As a result, even simple problems take substantial time to fix.

I can take any Beogram apart with one single screwdriver in five minutes. A 4000-series can be disassembled without tools in 60 seconds.

There you have it.
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As for the "strange plugs"; They are standard 5-7 pin DIN plugs. Still widely available, and adaptors to RCA plugs are in abundance.

As for answering the OP:
The Beogram 1602 is one of the "value" B&O decks. They are well-designed and very simple in electronic/mechanical construction. Very little can go wrong in them. The parts are used from the Beogram 1500 onwards are interchangable with each other, should problems arise.

The older cartridge series are much more sturdy than the smaller MMCx-series. It should sound fine, I haven't encountered any bad MMC20 cartridges yet. The standard cartridge on the 1602 would have been an MMC20S or E which are fairly basic but well sounding.
 
Fred Longworth said:
I am not a fan of B&O turntables. The reasons are as follows:

(1) The B&O company has horrible service manuals, usually without supplements to deal with production changes. As a result, you will often encounter a machine where the schematic and board layouts do not agree with the actual machine.
Click to expand...

I actually think the company has very good manuals (service and technical information) with a lot of technical information whenever they introduce a new circuit or technique - they also use to provide update info I have scans of a fair few changes throughout the life of the gram 4000 for example! Different revisions have type numbers which resort to different layouts ect.

Fred Longworth said:
(2) B&O does not supply parts.

(3) B&O does not provide technical assistance.

(4) If you call them for parts or technical assistance, they display what we call on the streets as "attitude."
Click to expand...
I can't argue too much with the above, but lets be honest there aren't many companies who like dealing with the man on the street, and prefer people to go to authorised parts centers. However B&O use to be fantastic in this area but unfortunately changed in the late 90's.
As for parts, most of the stuff that is exclusive to B&O is so well made that it is rarely an issue. Parts that normally need replacing can be found at most electronics suppliers.

Fred Longworth said:
(5) Their cartridge and stylus are integral, so, as with a moving coil, their moving magnets require an entirely new cartridge/stylus. This costs a fortune.
Click to expand...

Really a bonus for reasons mentioned above - Also there are people who are able to mount new suspension / cantilever and stylus for a very reasonable fee, A chap in Germany has fantastic feedback and as the cart bodies are all the same even the cheapest MMC20S can be upgraded to the best for little money!

Fred Longworth said:
(6) Their equipment is fairly hard to disassemble. As a result, even simple problems take substantial time to fix.
Click to expand...

I actually service vintage B&O and I can tell you compared to a lot of Japanese amps they are a dream to work on! Most of their stuff have extra brackets to hold boards / panels in service positions or even a bonnet stick like found on a car (in Europe, at least!).

@OP these players perform very well and are often overlooked as style over substance, but they really perform very well, but what I really love about this brand is that you find yourself sitting down and simply enjoying the music without the stress of wandering if you have something or other set right - they also look damn good :)
 
Agree with Fred Longworth. B&O's attitude about support makes me not like their gear though it is as a rule fine. Looks are great, but I'd darn better be able to use my choice of cartridge and stylus as some of my records don't play best on high dollar tips or low mass setups.
 
Fred Longworth said:
I am not a fan of B&O turntables. The reasons are as follows:

(1) The B&O company has horrible service manuals, usually without supplements to deal with production changes. As a result, you will often encounter a machine where the schematic and board layouts do not agree with the actual machine.

(2) B&O does not supply parts.

(3) B&O does not provide technical assistance.

(4) If you call them for parts or technical assistance, they display what we call on the streets as "attitude."

(5) Their cartridge and stylus are integral, so, as with a moving coil, their moving magnets require an entirely new cartridge/stylus. This costs a fortune.

(6) Their equipment is fairly hard to disassemble. As a result, even simple problems take substantial time to fix.

There you have it.

Fred
Click to expand...

As a former B&O warranty tech, I agree with your post 100%.
 
My only problem wasn't the quality of their support, the term. I was disappointed to say the least when I was told I couldn't get an idler for my 1900 when it was only 12 years old. Had I known they only made parts for 10 years, I would have bought a dozen of them and would probably still be using it. The second statement is a little silly don't you think? That's like saying "Some of my records don't play on 45 or 33 and need a big fat stylus. It better be a Dual with a big clunky arm". :D There's pros and cons to all of it. Even beat to crap library records played just fine on my B&O.

KentTeffeteller said:
Agree with Fred Longworth. B&O's attitude about support makes me not like their gear though it is as a rule fine. Looks are great, but I'd darn better be able to use my choice of cartridge and stylus as some of my records don't play best on high dollar tips or low mass setups.
Click to expand...
 
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