Tubes all the way?

DonBattles

Well-Known Member
How many guys or gals here run Mac tube amps and tube preamps? I'm looking to kick things off with an MC275 and am looking ahead to the Mac preamp and trying to decide between solid state and tube? Will the sound be double sweet :music: ?
 
Register to hide this ad
both

I have both set ups currently.

Tubes are more 'involving' but for many apps, such as home theater and driving difficult speakers, solid state is great.

You really should start with the room, then the speakers you use to make a decision and strive for some sort of symbiosis.

p.s. I had an old 7270 before my current ss amp, I really enjoyed that solid state muscle!
 
I dunno....

If I can drive a pair of Infinity Kappa 9's with MC-75's, I would have a hard time believing there are many speaker's that won't succumb to a little Mc tube amp charm.....:smoke:

Personally, I've been spoiled by going straight to Mc tube gear. If you have the pockets and a supplier/pusher, why not?...:D
 
Tube amps and preamp in my system. I'm still loving the 60th anniversary set.

This will be my first winter with tube amps. So far tube heat is much better than electric heat. :D

I have not tried my MC75s with a SS preamp yet. I did have my system setup for a short while without a preamp, just using my DAC direct to the amps. With the DAC going direct to the amps, every once in a while it would give me listener fatigue. I have been using my tube preamp in the system for the last 4 months. With the tube preamp in the system it sounds smoother and I have not had listener fatigue once. Tube preamp and tube amps is a sound I'm really enjoying.
 
The C2300/MC275V combo is excellent as expected. I also tried a fast SS preamp with the MC275V, also good but a little less tubey. My new to me MC75's are being driven directly by my CDP and that to me is the cleanest sound. I wish MAC hadn't deleted the gain controls in the MC275V or I would try this. If I had to buy again, I should have considered the MC275IV.
 
If I can drive a pair of Infinity Kappa 9's with MC-75's, I would have a hard time believing there are many speaker's that won't succumb to a little Mc tube amp charm.....:smoke:

Personally, I've been spoiled by going straight to Mc tube gear. If you have the pockets and a supplier/pusher, why not?...:D

I think we have the same dealer. I can't even light mine up and won't for some time, and already I'm hooked. John
 
it may beat heroin addiction, but mac addiction's only advantage is its legallity, it just as expensive as a drug habit......im lucky I dont smoke, Id have to quit to afford the Mc addiction.
 
Beats heroin I suppose. At least if I overdose and drop dead, my widow can get her $$$ back out of my addiction.....:D

Is it asking too much to be buried with them? I also want to buried with my Magic: The Gathering Cards too...

Err.. that might have been TMI... :P
 
I have both set ups currently.

Tubes are more 'involving' but for many apps, such as home theater and driving difficult speakers, solid state is great.

You really should start with the room, then the speakers you use to make a decision and strive for some sort of symbiosis.

p.s. I had an old 7270 before my current ss amp, I really enjoyed that solid state muscle!

You are absolutely right, start with the room acoustics then the speakers and the gear. It's more easy to do the comparison.
Thanks
 
How many guys or gals here run Mac tube amps and tube preamps? I'm looking to kick things off with an MC275 and am looking ahead to the Mac preamp and trying to decide between solid state and tube? Will the sound be double sweet :music: ?
How come you didn't ask how many guys and gals run Mac tube amps and SS preamps? It sounds like your mind is already made up.
 
Im running the opposite, mac tube preamp, and ss amp, and still gettin that nice warm tube sound. mx-110 z series, and a mc-2505
 
With a hybrid system, the sound wasn't good SS or good tube and I kept wishing for better. IMO, if you are going to go one way, better to be consistent.
 
I have had and used in the past C220,C46,MC501,MC275s and mixed and matched, they do interchange well so it becomes subjective but the system that I liked was C46 with MC501s. When I had a MDA1000 driving MC275s that to my ears did not work that well.
 
No, can't say I've made up my mind at all. Just the way I asked the question I guess :dunno:
Hi Don. I just wanted to make sure that you were still truly open to either :yes:

Many people will mix/match tube/ss amps/preamps, hoping they'll hit the "sonic jackpot". However, knowledge is power (most of the time anyway) so I think it's helpful to first have a clear understanding of the difference(s) in how tubes and transistors affect an audio signal; and why using one or the other, in an amp and/or a preamp may appeal more to a person's sonic preferences.

Everyone will agree that we don't want to unintentionally modify the signal after it leaves the source. So how can an audio signal be modified? Two ways: strength and frequency. The trick in audio reproduction, is to intentionally modify the first (provide signal amplification) without unintentionally distorting/corrupting the second (i.e. maintaining FIDELITY to what came out of the source.)

So lets talk about what amps and preamps do and don't do with/to the signal:

Preamplifiers are way-stations between the source and the amplifier. Some single source users (generally the digital-only people) see no need for a preamp at all, as long as the source unit (the CD player) has a volume control built into it. For the rest of us, a basic preamp offers source selection, source level matching, source impedance matching (so all sources look the same to the amplifier impedance-wise) balance adjustment, and output attenuation (volume cointrol.) I use the word "attenuation" to call attention to the fact that a preamp's volume control is a reducer, not an increaser :D As you turn up the volume, you're allowing more signal to get through to the amp; you are not amplifying the signal. So what you should take away from this paragraph is that Preamplifiers don't Amplify (phono preamplifiers, separate or built-in do amplify but that's another conversation :yes:)

Amplifiers do amplify - and that's all they do! But first, I want to dispel a common myth: the myth is the idea that the power output tubes-or-transistors (the ones that get hot? :thmbsp:) are doing the "amplifying". They are not! They are simply flow valves (like a faucet) that are able to provide a more "electrically forceful" duplicate version of the source's signal - I'll come back to this in a second; stay with me :yes: In both solid state and thermionic audio amplifiers, the amplification function more commonly known as "gain" is the responsibility of the 'gain-multiplier' and 'driver' sections of the amp (sometimes known as an amp's 'front end', or input/driver section.) This is where the signal is most vulnerable to corruption, than any other place in the audio playback chain. It's a bit like trying to blow up a photo (digital OR analog) without revealing the pixels or the silver grains. This is why in a tube amp like an MC275 for instance, the tubes that have the most influence on sonics are not the big KT88 power tubes, but the little gain multiplier 12AX7's!

The hard/warm/cold/soft issue :D Why, oh why, oh why, are tubes WARM, and transistors COLD?? First, please remember that these adjectives all strive to describe something that happens to the signal, as it passes through various kind of devices and circuits. To boost a signal's strength, valves are used. The weak signal directly from the source itself, or when it comes out of the preamp, is used ONLY to operate the 'handle' of the 'valve'. The power that drives your speaker is NOT a boosted-up signal!! It's just raw power sitting there behind the valve, in the power supply, waiting for the signal to wiggle the valve's handle in accordance with the musical modulations. The modulated stream of power is what drives the speaker :thmbsp:

It is in the nature of elecrical valves (as opposed to water valves :D) that they can only accept a positive or negative side of a signal's polarity, but not both at once (this is a generality for the purpose of this little essay.) They have to work in teams/pairs, better known as a 'push-pull' circuit. So one power tube/transistor 'opens its faucet' for the plus side of the signal's sine wave, and then hollers "your turn" to its buddy who then opens its faucet to make the minus side of the sine wave. The driver section of the amp (where the signal can get screwed up) is for the purpose of making the little signal strong enough to operate the valve handle :thmbsp:)

AND HERE'S WHERE THINGS GET WARM OR COLD: it's when one of the pair of valves hollers, "your turn"! This is because there's about to be a "hand-off" (of the music signal) like a baton in a relay race. One runner stops running and the other has to start running as fast as they can! Transistors can do this (turn on/turn off ) almost instantaneously; tubes turn on and off more slowly, as they energize/de-energize. If a pair of transistors aren't PERFECTLY syncronized as they turn on/off, there will be either overlap (producing hardness/glare/distortion) or a little gap, or discontinuity (producing loss of microdynamics and low level detail). With tubes, you never have the "gap" problem, but you have a larger or smaller degree of the "overlap" problem; and it can never be entirely eliminated.

So if you want to hear every bit of the music, especially the important mid-range detail, use a tube amp. If you want it lean, get an Audio Research. If you want it warm a lush, get a Conrad-Johnson. If you want a perfect balance (in my opinion) get a McIntosh. If you want powerful bass and (the appearance of) High Definition, buy a great SS amp. McIntosh SS would be a good choice, were it NOT for their auto-transformers, which introduce a bit of a magnetic lag; producing a sound not unlike "slower tube hand-off".

Back to preamps. Preamps, since they don't (or unless they do) apply 'gain' to the signal, cannot affect the signal quality (warming/cooling) the way an amplifier can. A poorly designed or poorly functioning preamp can ADD stuff to the signal, usually noise, and as opposed to Myth #2, both tube AND SS preamps can be noisy or quiet depending . . . . . but toobies are more likely to be noisy because no tube is absolutely quiet, and most transistors are absolutely quiet :yes: Since a good amplifier will faithfully multiply EVERYTHING that comes out of the preamp, it will also boost tube hiss to (what for me is) an annoying level. (And that's how Mr. Dolby got so rich :yes:)

Bottom line: if you want "tube sound" (whatever you concieve that to be) get a tube amp - a tube preamp (except for the built-in tube phonostage part) will NOT give you "tube sound"; only tube noise (which many mistake for "tube sound" :yes:) I have over the years enjoyed all the combos, but for the cleanest source and/or preamp signal and the most faithful power amp signal, I always wind up with SS pre, and tube power; and a ss amp for the woofers (or a sub.) With ONE exception (there's always one isn't there?) and that's FM tuners (as if anyone cares anymore :no:) but tube tuners simply sound more musical to me, and FM is just a bit noisy anyway, so no problem :D
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom