Dyna 10X5 Slightly Skewed Cantilever

SubWolfer

SubWolfer

Well-Known Member
Hi guys. I had a bought a used Dyna 10X5 cart and noticed the cantilever looked to be slightly bent to the right and not perfectly straight in relation to the cartridge body, like perhaps a couple degrees. I ended up returning it to the seller but is this normal or not? I ask because I put in an offer on another Dyna 10X5 HERE on A'gon. But looking at the pic, though it's hard to be sure, but it, too, looks slightly skewed. Perhaps it's just the camera angle of that photo.

But the bottom line is, the cantilever should appear to be perfectly straight on a Dyna 10X5, shouldn't it?
 
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Seller has responded to my email inquiry with the following response:

"Jeff, No problem, I'm also new to Audiogon. Cantilever is dead straight and no issues with cart."

The description states: Used for about 200 hours. Excellent condition and is newer model with threaded body.

This would be for my VPI Scout. I was considering a new AT-150MLX. But whaday guys think; can't go wrong with a Dyna 10X5 if its in excellent condition for this price, can I ? :scratch2:
 
SubWolfer said:
I was considering a new AT-150MLX. But whaday guys think; can't go wrong with a Dyna 10X5 if its in excellent condition for this price, can I ? :scratch2:
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My only concern would be that the stylus isn't user replaceable, you have to send it in for a retip, if needed.

I have an AT150MLX myself that I bought new and couldn't be happier.

There are a few threads that discuss the merits of the Dyna vs the 150, but myself, I'd go for new, in either case. My 0.02.
 
Good points. I know for sure if I get an AT-150MLX, I'd get it new. If this Dyna cart is in excellent condition then I think its a good deal for a starter cartridge. I can resell it if I dislike it and recoup most, if not all, what I spent on it. Also, if I want to move up the Dyna line, the money spent on the used cart would all be applied to the new one on a trade-in. So it would almost be as if I never even paid for the first cart and I get to try it out and see if the Dyna sound is to my liking. (got my eye on a Dynavector 17d3 for a possible upgrade).

By the way, looking at the other gear that seller has for sale, despite his low feedback, he obviously has some very nice components which would lead me to believe he has experience with audio equipment. So I went for it. Just hope the cantilever is "dead straight" as he claims.
 
SubWolfer said:
Good points. I know for sure if I get an AT-150MLX, I'd get it new. If this Dyna cart is in excellent condition then I think its a good deal for a starter cartridge. I can resell it if I dislike it and recoup most, if not all, what I spent on it. Also, if I want to move up the Dyna line, the money spent on the used cart would all be applied to the new one on a trade-in. So it would almost be as if I never even paid for the first cart and I get to try it out and see if the Dyna sound is to my liking. (got my eye on a Dynavector 17d3 for a possible upgrade).

By the way, looking at the other gear that seller has for sale, despite his low feedback, he obviously has some very nice components which would lead me to believe he has experience with audio equipment. So I went for it. Just hope the cantilever is "dead straight" as he claims.
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Good move!
 
Hey Peter, how are you liking your Scout? I still don't have mine up and running and hopefully will this weekend with the Dyna 10X5. You think it was a good move buying the used cart if its in excellent condition like the seller states?
 
I read a lot of posts and one thing that seemed to get repeated over and over was the synergy between Dynavector carts and the VPI Scout. So that was one reason I decided to go for a 10X5 again. The first 10X5 I had the cantilever didn't appear to be straight. The cantilever looked tilted/skewed a few degrees to one side compared to the cartridge body. Even though nobody has verified whether that's not normal (which is why I started this thread, to ask that specifically) I'm assuming it should be dead straight.
 
SubWolfer said:
Hey Peter, how are you liking your Scout? I still don't have mine up and running and hopefully will this weekend with the Dyna 10X5. You think it was a good move buying the used cart if its in excellent condition like the seller states?
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If the seller is reputable and honest, you can do very well buying used cartridges. The Dynavector 17D3 Karat I run on my VPI HW-19 Mk-IV was purchased used with very low (<20) hours and only cost about 60% of new.

And yes, I can attest to the synergy between VPI and Dynavector.
 
No way to know in advance how honest the seller is. It states "Used for about 200 hours" but there's no way to verify that. It could have 5 times that many hours and I doubt I could tell. And if "reputable" equates to someone with a lot of positive feedback, then he fails in that regard due to only a few transactions, but all were positive.

One thing that kind of bothered me was I had sent a few emails after I made my payment in regards to shipping. I asked if it wouldn't fit properly in a Priority Mail flat-rate box to use an appropriate box but still ship it Priority and I said if the cost was significantly different, I would compensate. I also sent another email asking for all the accessories to be included (brush for cleaning the stylus, wire leads, user manual). He replied back saying he had the brush but that was all. I replied back one more time to ask that he put a peice of tape on the plastic cover so there would be no way for it to come loose during shipping. He responded with this:

Jeff,

The cart is packaged well and protected in the oversize box as you
requested. The cart is attached to the black base by a screw, so the clear
top is just there for a cover. I also am insuring it for full value in case
of shipping damage. So, unless you want to go buy a new one somewhere, I
will ship this to you today.

I am running out of patience and time for this transaction.
Let me know.

Matt


I responded back with this:

Matt,

I appreciate the oversize box and insurance. I certainly don't mean to cause a fuss, just asking questions is all. Patience is a virtue because it makes us better people.

Go ahead and ship it today. I won't bother you again.

-Jeff
 
That was freaking rude, and I would've essentially told him the same thing Skylounger said. I checked the ad, from the three feedbacks he has, only one was from selling something, hardly established as a reputable seller on A-Gon.

I've talked quite a bit with Subwolf over the past 10 days, or so. He's a person who is inquisitive, wants to learn, but doesn't have much analog experience, and of course, I can very well understand his position right now, with the worry about getting burned with a sub-standard cartridge again. He's being wise, asking questions, and as well, letting the seller know up front that he doesn;t want any fubars. Bravo Subwolf, you are completely entitled to ask those questions!

And while I'm not reluctant of purchasing used gear in certain instances, one thing I never bought used, is a Cartridge. I've always felt it was tooo huge of a risk, to sacrifice my good records on a chance that they wouldn't be irreversibly damaged in the process. Mark
 
SubWolfer said:
No way to know in advance how honest the seller is. It states "Used for about 200 hours" but there's no way to verify that. It could have 5 times that many hours and I doubt I could tell. And if "reputable" equates to someone with a lot of positive feedback, then he fails in that regard due to only a few transactions, but all were positive.

One thing that kind of bothered me was I had sent a few emails after I made my payment in regards to shipping. I asked if it wouldn't fit properly in a Priority Mail flat-rate box to use an appropriate box but still ship it Priority and I said if the cost was significantly different, I would compensate. I also sent another email asking for all the accessories to be included (brush for cleaning the stylus, wire leads, user manual). He replied back saying he had the brush but that was all. I replied back one more time to ask that he put a peice of tape on the plastic cover so there would be no way for it to come loose during shipping. He responded with this:

Jeff,

The cart is packaged well and protected in the oversize box as you
requested. The cart is attached to the black base by a screw, so the clear
top is just there for a cover. I also am insuring it for full value in case
of shipping damage. So, unless you want to go buy a new one somewhere, I
will ship this to you today.

I am running out of patience and time for this transaction.
Let me know.

Matt


I responded back with this:

Matt,

I appreciate the oversize box and insurance. I certainly don't mean to cause a fuss, just asking questions is all. Patience is a virtue because it makes us better people.

Go ahead and ship it today. I won't bother you again.

-Jeff
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Notice how he had plenty of time to collect your cash before he mouthed off?

Deal with him via the feedback option.
 
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markd51 said:
That was freaking rude, and I would've essentially told him the same thing Skylounger said. I checked the ad, from the three feedbacks he has, only one was from selling something, hardly established as a reputable seller on A-Gon.

Mark
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Big Bill said:
These people are what I call internet bullies! Notice how he had plenty of time to collect your cash before he mouthed off?
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I'm thinking perhaps he may have just been having a bad day and got a little annoyed by my repeated email inquiries after the sale. I'll agree that it was a tad uncalled for and he's certainly not established as a reputable seller on A-Gon. But if the cart is indeed in excellent condition (I know that's a big IF but I tend to be a trusting person) then I still think it was worth it. If the cantilever is dead straight like he claims, what more could I ask for?
 
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SubWolfer said:
Jeff,

The cart is packaged well and protected in the oversize box as you
requested. The cart is attached to the black base by a screw, so the clear
top is just there for a cover. I also am insuring it for full value in case
of shipping damage. So, unless you want to go buy a new one somewhere, I
will ship this to you today.

I am running out of patience and time for this transaction.
Let me know.
Click to expand...

Wow yes that is very uncalled for! I think that if the cart came in perfect shape that I still would only give him a mediocre feedback, and state the cart was fine but the service was not....
 
You may be right Subwolf, and as well, at this point in time, it wouldn't be wise to put the Cart before the Horse. You may very well be dealing with an honest seller who took very good care of this piece of equipment, so he should not be condemned-thrashed just yet.

You may've very well made a good deal here, and we of course are all wishing you the best of luck with this transaction. 200 hours of play may be no wear at all, provided the Cartridge was used on pristine cleaned records.

A Cartridge's "health" includes both Stylus, Cantilever, and Cantilever Suspension condition. I'm a firm believer, that when a Cartridge company places a "life" of a Cartridge, or should I maybe say "Stylus", and give a life of 1000 hours, or 1600 hours, I feel this can be misleading, and perhaps as well misunderstood.

I don't believe a good Diamond Stylus will wear this quickly, especially if taken care of. Even somebody like Karma16, who him, and I often agree to disagree with one another, will agree in this instance, that a Stylus can last much longer than those hours I mention above. Often it is the Cantilever Suspension that will fail, and be compromised first, before the Stylus could ever get to the point of being unusable.

Many times, a "bad Stylus" is only a "dirty Stylus", that has not been properly maintained-cleaned.

Suspension failure, or accidental death, are the two major causes of Cartridge failures, IMO. Mark
 
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Thanks Mark, very informative and clearly explained. As Mark stated, we've exchanged a few emails over the past couple weeks and he's really been very helpful. I wish he was my neighbor. :yes:

One reason for choosing a used cart and trying to keep my cost down is because if I do happen to mess up (accidental death), at least its not financially catastrophic. :tears: Better to screw up a used cart than a brand new one, if that makes any sense? :dunno:

I really wish I knew someone in my area who had knowledge with setting up carts and could give me a hand. Learning from an experienced turntable aficionado would be greatly beneficial in understanding how to properly set up my Scout. But unfortunately none of my buddies are really any more an expert at it than I am. So I guess it's trial by error. :sigh:
 
SubWolfer said:
Thanks Mark, very informative and clearly explained. As Mark stated, we've exchanged a few emails over the past couple weeks and he's really been very helpful. I wish he was my neighbor. :yes:

One reason for choosing a used cart and trying to keep my cost down is because if I do happen to mess up (accidental death), at least its not financially catastrophic. :tears: Better to screw up a used cart than a brand new one, if that makes any sense? :dunno:

I really wish I knew someone in my area who had knowledge with setting up carts and could give me a hand. Learning from an experienced turntable aficionado would be greatly beneficial in understanding how to properly set up my Scout. But unfortunately none of my buddies are really any more an expert at it than I am. So I guess it's trial by error. :sigh:
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When the time comes, I'll try helping to walk you through Cartridge set-up
If I remember correctly, you said you did have a Stylus Force Gauge, correct (The Shure?) And the MintLP Best Tractor, which is about the very best to be had, bar none. The only other adjustments that need to be set and/or checked, will be Azimuth Angle, which the MintLP Mirror Tractor can be an aid, by sighting the front of the Cartridge, and seeing both the Stylus, and the reflection of the Stylus in the Mirror. If that baby looks to be precisely straight up, and down, you're pretty much good to go.

The other adjustment, will be VTA (Vertical Tracking Angle) One should start with neutral VTA, meaning the Arm isn't ass end up, or ass end down. That when the Cartridge is in play and/or is resting on a record, that the Arm Wand Tube is exactly parallel to the record's surface.

This adjustment can be initially aided by a folded, ruled 3x5 Index Card positioned on the Platter behind the Arm Wand. then getting down at Arm level to see that it lines up with the ruled lines on the Card. This is at least better than naked eyeballing it.

Again my friend, I'll be here for you, and as well so will many others here to offer you help, we won't abandon you! Mark
 
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Thanks Mark, I really appreciate that. Yes, I do have all those tools you mentioned. I was also wondering if I should get one of THESE because last time I was having a hard time seeing the cantilever and stylus when it was sitting on the MintLP Best Tractor. I remember reading some where that the 10X5 is not the easiest to line up due to it being difficult to see.
 
Subwolf, If it's any consolation, I mentioned to you (and to others here as well) that two years ago, I broke my Benz Glider Cartridge, doing an alignment with the Turntable Basics Protractor. Tried sliding it forward a bit farther than it wanted to go, and bingo, the Cartridge seperated into two pieces, the mounting plate still on the Headshell, and the Motor Assembly, with all the little Pin wires, and Cantilever Suspension Wire between my two fingers. The Cartridge was 10 years old, and was still sounding great.
At least it was worth $400 dead, or alive towards the new Ruby 3 I then bought.

Trust me, I was making signs of the cross when mounting the Ruby 3. These are things, in which one can have no experience, and then have lots of experience, but the room for error is very small when toying with such delicate beasts.

And I know of others, one member over on A-Gon not long back, who destroyed his beloved Dynavector DRT XV-1S Cartridge. Now that's something to really cry over! Mark
 
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