Considering the Forte I. Will my Crown PS-400 be too powerful?

Codis

Active Member
I've found a very reasonably priced set of fortes, but I'm worried about overpowering them. They're rated at 100w max according to Klipsch's site. The Crown puts out 165w/channel @ 8ohms. I presumed it would be too much power for them but then I just spoke to a gentleman that's running them with a Bryston 4b at 250w per channel with no issues.

Can these speakers handle way more than recommended?

If it's helpful info, my preamp is a Mcintosh C30.
 
They'll be fine. At sane listening levels, you'll never have the volume turned up such that the amp is putting out more than 100 watts. I run a 165wpc amp on my Fortes without issue.
 
They'll be fine. At sane listening levels, you'll never have the volume turned up such that the amp is putting out more than 100 watts. I run a 165wpc amp on my Fortes without issue.

Good to know! I'm not trying to make my neighbors hate me so I definitely don't crank my current speakers.

How much of an effect will the gain controls on the amplifier have? Should I max those then adjust the preamp volume accordingly?
 
I find I do not use all the power I have. It is not like you are going to peg the preamp attenuator, right? You are probably never going to use 50 or maybe even 25 watts no matter what amp you use. I had a Crown PL-4, also 165 watts and it worked great with my Forte speakers. It is a matter of GAIN, not so much the amps power rating once you have at least the minimum required. An underpowered amp is far more dangerous than an overpowered one.
 
Good to know! I'm not trying to make my neighbors hate me so I definitely don't crank my current speakers.

How much of an effect will the gain controls on the amplifier have? Should I max those then adjust the preamp volume accordingly?
I turn my gain up to about the 4 o clock position at least or even all the way up if they are very silent and then use the volume control on my Marantz AVR to adjust the level. That way all the power is there if needed for any transients or sudden bursts and I don't have to fiddle with the gain knobs ever. That being said, with my r820f speakers, I'm probably never giving them more than 25 or 30 watts at the most anyway. YMMV.
 
I turn my gain up to about the 4 o clock position at least or even all the way up if they are very silent and then use the volume control on my Marantz AVR to adjust the level. That way all the power is there if needed for any transients or sudden bursts and I don't have to fiddle with the gain knobs ever. That being said, with my r820f speakers, I'm probably never giving them more than 25 or 30 watts at the most anyway. YMMV.

Yes, I do the same with my gear.
 
As long as you don't clip the Crowns you should be OK. You will probably be listening at less than 1 watt continuous most of the time anyway. PS 400 like DC 300A can be pretty sterile and Austere. I prefer Hafler to go with Klipsch speakers. Unless you want to use tubes. Then if you want a more forward sound your choose Marantz, a warmer sound older Mac tube stuff, More accurate bass newer or current Mac tube power amps. If you want something in-between your Crown and tubes 7000 series Mac amps with auto formers, something a little more accurate than the Haflers a Mac 7200, if you want meters, or a 7100 if you don't. At least the 7100 and 754 have power guard which will help protect your speakers, where the others can wipe out your HF drivers in a flash if you allow the amps to clip or push them too hard.
 
Good to know! I'm not trying to make my neighbors hate me so I definitely don't crank my current speakers.

How much of an effect will the gain controls on the amplifier have? Should I max those then adjust the preamp volume accordingly?
In my experience, gain is the enemy with those speakers. Set your amp or preamp that has adjustable gain to the lowest level available. The sensitivity of the Klipsch will amplify the noise and distortion of higher gain that other less sensitive speakers do not reveal. You'll get more transparent, less harsh sound with less gain. I've never had to turn the volume past 9:00 with any amp I've used to get 70 to 80db.
 
Yep my preamp has a -6dB main gain attenuator switch on each output channel. AND it has a -6dB gain attenuator switch on each input. So that gives me a total of -12dB gain attenuation PLUS it has a -20dB mute switch for at total of -32dB attenuation! I am doing fine with the simple -6dB output attenuation.
 
The Crown amps have input attenuators, not "gain" controls. Set your Crown to where your C30's volume control is in the mid range (twelve-o'clock) at the normal listening level for your taste and your room. That should establish a range and level where your noise floor is at a minimum. It's not rocket-surgery so play with it to see. On my JBL 4345 bi-amp system I set the Crown PS400 and PS200 controls straight-up and it seems to work fine.
I love my Crowns! :beerchug:
 
The Crown amps have input attenuators, not "gain" controls. Set your Crown to where your C30's volume control is in the mid range (twelve-o'clock) at the normal listening level for your taste and your room. That should establish a range and level where your noise floor is at a minimum. It's not rocket-surgery so play with it to see. On my JBL 4345 bi-amp system I set the Crown PS400 and PS200 controls straight-up and it seems to work fine.
I love my Crowns! :beerchug:


So that's what I was previously doing with my current speakers, a set of ESS AMT-1b's. I had always thought there was a big gap in the midrange on these speakers, which is also echoed by other reviews of these speakers. Recently I turned the crown up to max and adjusted the volume much lower on the Preamp and couldn't believe the sound that was coming out of those speakers. For whatever reason, this brought out a lot of the detail that I was previously missing!
 
So that's what I was previously doing with my current speakers, a set of ESS AMT-1b's. I had always thought there was a big gap in the midrange on these speakers, which is also echoed by other reviews of these speakers. Recently I turned the crown up to max and adjusted the volume much lower on the Preamp and couldn't believe the sound that was coming out of those speakers. For whatever reason, this brought out a lot of the detail that I was previously missing!
A lot of this is about matching the output of our pre-amps to the input of the amp. Commercial/Pro amps often are very different in this respect from "consumer" stuff and mismatches can occur. It's really all about what sounds best to you since the ultimate goal is listening to music. Of course some of that can by psychosomatic (hence debated over speaker and power cables) or related to the way the human ear perceives frequencies based on sound pressure (Fletcher-Munson). Louder usually sounds better! About the only way to really tell would be to run a frequency sweep at the same SPL using different setting on the amp attenuators and the pre-amp volume control.

I've had the equipment to make such measurements but never have. Just watching the reaction of the "signal presence" LEDs is enough to let me know the Crown controls are simply attenuators—which ultimately effect your SPL—but not really gain controls. Some pre-amp volume controls use a curve to alter loudness compensation at different level positions. If your pre-amp isn't straight-line, you might pick up different frequency balance at different volume-control settings as opposed to actual SPL in your room. Just thinking out loud. I've used a Crown PSL-2 (currently in the system) and a Soundcraftsment Pro-Control-Four, both of which tout "straight-line" or "direct" capability. But, again, adjusting to taste in your listening is what's important. I'll start out "straight-line" and adjust from there including using my Soundcraftsmen Pro-EQ-44 to shape the curve for low-level listening and room response. Nothing sacred about unity gain (except on my EQ), lack of tone controls, or twelve-o'clock knob positions to me.
 
Yup, they're just pots on the input. Still, they control the input to output ratio, which is gain, so I don't worry much about the semantics. I find the sound quality of the PS-200 is excellent; it's my favorite amp here. I have to believe the PS-400 should be very similar. Obviously they need to be in good condition and properly adjusted. The only ding I can make against them is the power routing causes a bit higher hum on one channel. It's probably not audible, but can be seen on the test bench. I never worry about amp power and will use the 200 with even the smallest book shelf speakers. You just have to be sensible.
 
Yup, they're just pots on the input. Still, they control the input to output ratio, which is gain, so I don't worry much about the semantics.
To this layman, the difference means the Crowns are running full-open regardless of attenuator control position and the only variable in the gain is the output of the pre-amp. That, to me, would mean setting the Crown pots cannot effect the sound quality or frequency response if the same SPL at the speakers is maintained regardless of input-attenuator position. Effectively if there is a difference in sound quality with the Crown wide-open versus attenuators at 12:00, then the difference in frequency response must be coming from the pre-amp. :dunno:
 
It's an interesting question. If the input impedance of the amps were flat with frequency, the pot setting shouldn't affect it. I've measured several amps and that's usually the case. Then it comes down to the output of the preamp being affected by load. That I know a lot less about, but the load shouldn't change wildly with the pot setting. In any case, I run my 200 with the input pots set to 1:00 and haven't noticed any real difference between settings. In general, I don't like pots and thought about using a stepped attenuator, but never did it. It's probably more important to use the pots such that the preamp control is at a reasonable setting to avoid balance problems.
 
To OP, with Fortes at 98dB sensitivity you will be in a lot of pain way before you reach power levels that can damage the speakers. I'd be more concerned about hearing damage.
 
I use 120per with my Forte 1 and really never go above 9 O/Clock
I find this speaker likes a little reverb however you get it there.

Best-

Boozehound
 
Honestly, my Forte I's sound their best when working through my Pioneer SX-737, a relatively lower powered receiver. My SX-950 did nothing for them, in fact, I did not care for the extra wattage.
 
Honestly, my Forte I's sound their best when working through my Pioneer SX-737, a relatively lower powered receiver. My SX-950 did nothing for them, in fact, I did not care for the extra wattage.
If you were listening at the same level, I doubt the extra power had anything to do with the change in sound quality. :lurk:
 
If you were listening at the same level, I doubt the extra power had anything to do with the change in sound quality. :lurk:

Perhaps you are right, the 737 is notorious for having the “warm” sound. That might be the parmesan on the popcorn.
 
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