Difference between Pickering D625 and D1200 styli?

[Sonic_Clown]

After accidentally bending (and breaking while trying to bend back) the D625 stylus on my Pickering XV-15, I browsed through old threads here for a suitable replacement. After reading warnings against knock-off styli for this specific cartridge, I went ahead and scooped up another XV-15 with a Pickering D1200 stylus (both NOS) for about as much as a decent LPGear replacement would've cost me.

I'm just wondering, how will this (NOS) D1200 stylus compare against the sound of my old D625? I can't find any direct comparison between the two. I'm very new to this hobby, so the simplest explanation and spec comparison would teach me wonders.

Also, to save myself some trouble, would I be better off taking the new brush and d1200 and placing it on my current XV-15 cartridge or replacing the cartridge altogether?

I'd appreciate any guidance anyone is willing to give. Thanks.

 

[muovimies]

If your old cartridge works fine, there's little or nothing to gain by replacing it, as the "new" cart would be just as old anyway If the new cart is of different color, then it might be worth a shot - someone might know more about this, but I've noticed Pickering XV-15 came in different colors over the years, the higher models usually being golden.

If I recall correctly, the 625e stylus has a .3x.7 elliptical bonded diamond, while the 1200e has .2x.7 elliptical - whether nude or bonded I don't remember but I'm guessing bonded. In other words the 1200e stylus is smaller and thus can dig a bit more information out of the grooves, the price being perhaps a little hightened sensitivity to surface noise and higher record wear - in theory at least, personally I don't believe it makes any difference at all at the tracking forces we're talking about.

 

[Sonic_Clown]

Thank you! That makes a lot of sense.

But yeah, both carts are gold. The only difference is the label reading 1200E rather than 625E, and the 1200E is glossier.

 

[boreas]

The XV-15/1200E was the equivalent of the Stanton 681EEE (and the XV-15/625E was equivalent to the Stanton 680EE). As such, the bodies selected for the D1200 stylus were "the best of the best", meeting or exceeding the baseline specs for the cartridge. Accordingly, with the 1200 body, you might hear a slight improvement in sound over the 625E body.

The stylus is where you'll find the biggest difference. As said, the D1200's tip is a 0.2 x 0.7 mil elliptical. It's also a nude natural diamond, clear and pure white. The D625E is a 0.3 x 0.7 mil bonded diamond. As a result, the sonic difference between the two, in terms of nuance and detail should* be fairly significant.

Another difference between the two is that the stylus is of slightly higher compliance on the 1200 so slightly less tracking force is required/recommended but that's not as significant as the differences mentioned earlier.

John

*"Should" as in it will, assuming the stylus isn't damaged or excessively worn.

 

[gadget73]

The big difference with Pickering and Stanton stuff as mentioned is in the nail itself. The bodies are all pretty much the same within a family no matter what sticker or paint job is applied. The ones used with the primo stylii may have passed slightly more rigorous testing but you're likely well into splitting hairs now, 40 years after they were made.

 

[Sonic_Clown]

Sounds like I'd be best off just swapping out the cartridge entirely. Glad to hear I'm upgrading my gear a bit with this switch. Thanks again.

 

[boreas]

Sounds like I'd be best off just swapping out the cartridge entirely.

Potentially, but again, the difference between the cartridge bodies may not be terribly noticeable if at all. It;s the styli where the biggest difference will be evident.

Glad to hear I'm upgrading my gear a bit with this switch. Thanks again.

More than a bit, actually, assuming that the stylus is okay. I have an XV-15/1200E and an XV-15/625E and a Stanton 680EE. All are very good but the 1200 is quite noticeably better, in my opinion.

Of course, at some point it becomes a matter of individual taste. I've heard people say that their preferred Stantering is the 680EE/XV-15/625E. The takeaway here is that there's a noticeable difference between the styli, enough to cause people to prefer one over the other and not necessarily the one with the better specs or "abilities".

John

 

[pdm4606]

same issues....

I am currently using a XV-15/1200e cartridge with an after market stylus for a Stanton 681EEE.
The sound is fantastic. The best I have heard. I have been playing LP's for 55 years.
I like the 1200e cartridge. I tried to find out what it is plated with but it looks to me that it may be a gold plate on the steel shell. It is not paint as the lesser Pickerings are coated with. I don't know of other gold platings that look so gold and so good. With the gold finish and the black Stanton after market stylus the combination certainly looks good. Very classy.
I tried the after market Pickering style styli from several dealers and with both conical and elongated shape but found the Stanton after market stylus I am using to sound the best. I don't know what the stylus shape is with this stylus. It may be conical. I bought it for my Stanton 681EEE several years ago but was so disappointed in it's sound I retired my Stanton and never used the new stylus. I could not afford a good Stanton after market.
I have always been in favor and have used Pickerings and over the years have had several. But not lately. I gave them all away but I found a like new 400 stylus in a box at the bottom of my cartridge hardware drawer. I tried using it on my old Stanton 681EEE. It sounded good. Not as good as my current setup.
I found several 1200e's for sale on the bay and managed to get 2 for really cheap. Less that $45 for each. I just had to try out my old 400 stylus with one of these. I was blown away.
On another site I read about stylus switching and one bloggers great pleasure in mating the 1200e cart. to a stylus for the 681EEE. He was impressed. Having both items at my disposal I gave it a try.

Paul

 

[boreas]

Glad you found a combination that works for you. Theoretically, though, the Pickering D1200E and the Stanton D6800EEE styli should be the same, appearance aside and the cartridges, XV-15/1200E and 681EEE are identical. I realize that in both cases you were using an aftermarket stylus but I wonder why it sounded good in one cartridge and not so good in the other.

John

 

[pdm4606]

sound different...

Yes the Stanton after market sounded bad in the 681EEE cart. It sounded rattly and squeely.(best I can describe). Sounds completely different in the 1200e. I know all Pickering/Stanton info. says they are close but there is a difference.
I am doubting the info. about all Pickering carts(350, 400, 625, 750, etc) being the same except for the stylus.
Not what I found. There is a difference.

Paul

 

[boreas]

Yes the Stanton after market sounded bad in the 681EEE cart. It sounded rattly and squeely.(best I can describe). Sounds completely different in the 1200e. I know all Pickering/Stanton info. says they are close but there is a difference.
I am doubting the info. about all Pickering carts(350, 400, 625, 750, etc) being the same except for the stylus.
Not what I found. There is a difference.

Paul

Can you describe that difference? I'm only aware of two. The first is that the cartridges that hit their marks better when tested were used in combination with the better styli. The other is that earlier MI Pickering and Stanton cartridges used a shallower mounting angle that resulted in a lower VTA/SRA. Of the two, the different mounting angle is the one that would seem more likely to result in an audible difference between types.

John

 

[sKiZo]

Only thing I'd add is that procuring any OEM Pickering stylus can be quite the snipe hunt. I got lucky and was able to get a virgin boxed 625E (proudly made in Plainview USA!) for a reasonable price about a year back.

If you're that enamoured with the cartridge (and I know I am with mine) might want to think about picking up a spare anyway. My only concern there would be that the cantilever bushing on my original stylus suffered the dreaded "goo" syndrome. I expect that was a chemical reaction to whatever cleaning agents were used over time and a virgin shouldn't be affected.

 

[illinoisteve]

Sounds like I'd be best off just swapping out the cartridge entirely. Glad to hear I'm upgrading my gear a bit with this switch. Thanks again.

There are suddenly a lot of Pickering/Stanton threads. If you no longer want what may be a perfectly good cartridge, preferring to upgrade, somebody would probably be interested in it.

This isn't a commerce thread. I'm not making an offer. I'm just sayin'.