I will have a very nice pair of Renaissance 90's in house within a week. The deal is done' and I just have to pick them up. Before I knew I was getting these I had just had two HK Citation 16a's restored and I also had mono switches installed for easy bridging. I know the HK's state they should only be bridged into 8 ohms, but I remember reading somewhere that they have been used on occasion running a 4 ohm load bridged. Anyone have an opinion on if I should try this?
Infinity Renaissance 90's matched with Restored HK Citation 16a's?
- Thread starter smfins
- Start date
jazzmans
Super Member
Rens are a nominal 4ohm load.I drive mine with Carver350wpc and/or a 100wpc lepai chip amp. They are quite inefficient, and will use as much power as you give them.
They WILL illuminate any flaws upstream of them, so be prepared.
Mine will never leave my possession, they are just so wonderful to listen to. They don't sound rock and roll, like the Kappas do, but they do reproduce exactly whatever they're fed, good, bad, and ugly.
They WILL illuminate any flaws upstream of them, so be prepared.
Mine will never leave my possession, they are just so wonderful to listen to. They don't sound rock and roll, like the Kappas do, but they do reproduce exactly whatever they're fed, good, bad, and ugly.
Yeah, these Harman Kardon citation 16's bridge to 500 watts each , but they say to bridge then at 8 ohms. I just had these beautiful hk's restored and would hate to fry them. Im looking forward to checking out the infinitys! I got them for $1200 which seems to be the bling rate.
Yeah, I just know the 90's need a lot of power from what I've read. . The Hk is 250 per channel into 4 ohms. I would hope that would be enough. I've read the more power the better on the 90's. I had two of the 16's and decided to have them restored and was wanting to run both , with both placed on amp stands on the floor. I mainly wanted to run two for the "cool factor" I unlike some people like the bouncing angled lights on the citation 16. This infinity deal popped up and I have read such great things about them I had to try them. Either way, I'm looking forward to trying them out.
buddyiramae
New Member
I think that the 90s can be biamped. If so, use both HKs, one for the LF & one for the HF. Run the HKs in 2-channel mode, not bridged.
Thanks for the info. Yeah I've decided against even attempting it. I really like these Hk amps and I spent too much having them restored to burn them up! If I bi-amp them I wonder if my amps will still see 4 ohms? I wasn't sure if the impedance changed when bi-amping. I would like for it to stay at 4 ohms. The hk's are 250 per channel into 4 ohms.The 90's are 4 OHM NOMINAL meaning AVERAGE. If you don't know if the amps can deliver power at less than 4 ohms, I would not try it.
Example this is an impedance curve for the Kappa 9. If the Ref 90's are even close to this - don't do it.
Seppo
Super Member
If you look at the above impedance curve as a function of frequency for Kappa 9's, you can think that when bi-amping the way you are planning to do it, one of your amps sees the impedance load e.g. above 1k Hz (HF), while the other amp only sees the impedance load below 1kHz. In this example 1 kHz would be the cross-over frequency for bi-amping. In other words, the impedance load your two HK's will see is different, depending on the details of Ren 90 impedance curve.
Additionally, since it takes more power to produce sound at low frequencies (to move those woofers...), the HK amp that is driving the LF part is taxed more heavily.
Additionally, since it takes more power to produce sound at low frequencies (to move those woofers...), the HK amp that is driving the LF part is taxed more heavily.
Sandstrom
Seldom turns out the way it does in the song
I run a pair or Ren 80s with a Bryston 4B, they really do like the juice...that being said I do feel that if your HK's are 250 per channel into 4ohms you should be fine. I happen to have two 4Bs and for the hell of it one day hooked up both (one for highs and one for lows as mentioned above) couldn't hear a bit of difference but I have to imagine it lessens the load on the amplifiers to some degree.
And enjoy your new 90s! They are absolutely amazing and hold themselves well against a lot of great speakers even some of the new high end stuff I have auditioned...
And enjoy your new 90s! They are absolutely amazing and hold themselves well against a lot of great speakers even some of the new high end stuff I have auditioned...
nyhifihead
Well-Known Member
U should be concerned, 4 ohm nominal load that dips lower into a bridged amp is like the amp seeing 2 ohm, and even possibly 1.5-1 depending on how bad the dip. This is enough to blow your HK amp within minutes, those small heatsinks are not enough!
A lot of power amps even In the pro audio scene that are rated for 4 ohm bridged don't account for dips and prolonged usage.
Not to mention of its a passive design your almost always going to be thermally limited
Only really well designed high current amps can deal with 1 ohm dips, mark Levinson, pass labs, krell come to mind. Very expensive to build because of heatsinks, and massive power supplies
Best bet is to horizontal or vertical biamp. Vertical may be the best bet if the speakers require large current for the woofers, since the power is spread between both amps
Horizontal- HF l/r on one amp, LF l/r on one amp
Verical- L HF L LF on one amp, R HF R LF on one amp
Both situations amp is in stereo mode
Thanks for all the info! I ended up biamping them Horizontally with the HK's. These Renaissance 90's are amazing! I actually use these in both two channel and a Home theater setup. I just change the speaker wires out when listening to two channel. On the Home Theater side they are being powered with a Krell amplifier. They really sing with both options though! My only issue is due to the fact they are a good bit taller than the Kef' XQ 40's I had they are blocking my Processor on the home theater side. This is a minor PITA due to having to hold the remote way up on the air in order to operate the processor. Now I have to decide whether to keep them or go back to the Kefs which I really like as well.
buddyiramae
New Member
Glad to hear that you tried this. I had suggested this idea a while ago in response to your query. I have had good synergy with various Infinity IRS series in the past. Enjoy in good health!
Fixer Upper
New Member
I know this is an old thread, but I would like to throw some info in on the Citation 16 to contribute. The final output driver section on a C16, or C16A consists of 8 - 150 watt rated RCA 1B04 of 1B05 TO3 packaged transistors configured in a "Quasi - Complimentary" AB design, so, if a good restoration was done paying attention to putting new heat sink compound on the transistors, and none are too stressed with prior abuse or aged to the point they may fail, the amp should be more than capable of driving into those speakers, BUT, the protection circuit board may be a weak point. The protection board has a relay that is only rated @ 7.5 Amps of current per contact / channel ( and Ohms law works out 500 Watts into 4 Ohms as over 11 amps, since the contacts would be configured in "series" when bridging for mono, they are under rated), and, over the years of production for this amp, HK had "service bulletins" that first disabled, then, removed any "DC Offset" protection functionality to the relay driver, turning it into a "delay start" upon power up. Refreshing the relay , a Potter & Brumfield R10-E2-W2-E185 (amazingly still available as of Aug 2023) is recommended at least, and then installing fuses inline with your output to speaker wire connections is also recommended. The amp should still be capable of easily driving a low impedance load in either stereo or bridged configuration, it does have a current limiting "foldback" protection design built into the outputs ( Q19 & 20 monitor the emitter current on Q3 & Q4 final output transistors, and if it raises past its designed current threshold, it will start to "clamp" the drive to the full compliment of final output transistors) but will only reduce and not totally disable any excessive output current, and will not compensate for a output
transistors failure that might pass full + or - rail supply voltage to the speakers.
