Isn't everything really subjective as far as speakers?

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by Keldog, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Gerres26

    Gerres26 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    There's nothing wrong with that, but just realize that the guys that spend big bucks on gear that has great specs and such do so knowing that sitting in that sweet spot is where you really get to see what a nice stereo setup can do. Things like stereo imaging, soundstage, depth, and instrument seperation(just to name a few) on a well recorded track is when the music really comes alive. I guess my point is that most of the benefits one gets by using nice, properly set up gear is all for not if you aren't using it as designed.
     

     

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  2. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    I started a book of his. Something about a prince with white skin, sorta like a Vlad type, but not....hell, I cannot remember the title.

    Wasn't bad. And yet I never got around to finishing it. Same with "The Vampire Lestat" but I digress.
     
  3. Keldog

    Keldog AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Elric of Melnibone...Part of the Eternal Champion saga but the most popular.
     
  4. Keldog

    Keldog AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    And I appreciate the guys that are able and willing to spend the big bucks. I envy their ear for sound. But I am stuck with my own ears and can only go by my own experiences. Which is why I mentioned color blindness. Can you describe to me the color red and how you see it? Definitely not. As I have looked through my eyes all my life, it is impossible for me to describe how I see the world. Now, describe to me how you hear sound........
     
  5. teal'c

    teal'c Moomber Subscriber

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    If you run across The Knight of Swords, Queen of Swords, and King of Swords, I liked those better than the Elric Saga.
     
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  6. SoundsAlike

    SoundsAlike AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Things are subjective to a point but I scratch my head when I encounter old men with a house or several filled with speakers but their hearing is so shot the can’t even hear a conversation in a totally quiet room

    And then they come here with strong opinions about this speaker versus this speaker
     
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  7. ic-racer

    ic-racer Super Member

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    Except for the objective data, yes...
     
  8. Joe6805

    Joe6805 Member

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    Couldn’t have said it any better!

    For example, I’ve always liked my highs a bit subdued, I think it brings out so much more midrange and midbass detail that is otherwise obscured by excessive cymbals, etc. Most here (and other places) like a lot of highs, and very sharp tweeters. Not me. Don’t get me wrong, I like them accurate, just not overpowering.

    Joe
     
  9. elcoholic

    elcoholic Jet Fuel Genius Subscriber

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    To paraphrase Yogi Berra -

    Speaker appreciation is ninety percent subjective and the other half is just what you like. ;)

    In the golden days everybody had stereos. Big box stereo stores, department stores, appliance stores, Fedco, Gemco, PX’s, etc. You could by LoFi to MidFi on every corner. Then there were the Audio Salons for the upmarket gear. You’d have to go out of your way to not be exposed to tons of speakers. Now not so much and specs won’t get the uninitiated very far.
     
  10. bowtie427ss

    bowtie427ss arigato gozaimashita

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    This is a question most often asked by those who already know the answer in the back of their mind and just can't quite meet it face to face for whatever reason.

    Of course, the answer is "yes".

    He's called an engineer, whether a mastering engineer, recording engineer, or FOH(front of house) engineer his job is based largely around ensuring the quality of what everybody else hears.

    Here's a recording/mastering engineer some of you should immediately recognize. His name appears, not on one, not on a dozen, but rather on 100's of gold and platinum albums, some of which are right in your own collection.

    [​IMG]

    Certainly in the consumer world of wankery and heartfelt sentiment, subjectivity rules. This would include a large portion of the AK membership. That's neither a bad or good thing, it just is.

    A competent audio engineer knows precisely the sound that the majority of us will prefer, it's what he gets paid those big bucks for.

    In the real world of professional audio, the standards are much different. Subjectivity is replaced by math, physics, and quantitative analysis. A professional engineer, his clients, and even an informed segment of their audience knows how it's going to sound before the music ever starts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  11. teal'c

    teal'c Moomber Subscriber

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    And this highlights another aspect. The input you get depends on who sees and wants to reply. This is not the impression I get at all. Joe's description on how he likes his highs is the impression I get from the site., His impression of the site I see as the minority.
     
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  12. Quadman2

    Quadman2 Addicted Member

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    Compressed answer, subjectively objective, or objectively subjective:idea:...take yer pick.

    Mitigating variables: budget in mind, size/type of room, main genre listened to, type/power of sound source, vint or non-vint and of course the SO's opinion, if you have one.

    Q
     
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  13. RS Steve

    RS Steve Tube Junkie Subscriber

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    If you could borrow my brain, ears, and listening space, you'd agree that my speakers are certainly better sounding than all the others! :p :rflmao:
     
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  14. Drugolf

    Drugolf AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    It also depends on what you put all your stock into as well. If it's all about the music for you, you may not be too worried about how good it sounds. (Thus 99% of the millennials)
    And you don't miss what you've never known to be.
     
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  15. 71CNY

    71CNY Active Member

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    everybody got mixed feelings about the function and the form......
     
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  16. SaturationPt

    SaturationPt Fickle Collector Subscriber

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    Speaker Designers and manufacturers can only strive to create the best speaker. Many have been moving that bar higher for decades as more and more is understood and becomes measurable and as materials and processes improve.

    The goal is accurate, although there are tradeoffs in the designs and each Designer / Engineer makes his choices. Cost is of course one of them and most (successful) businesses look to Marketing to decide the performance and cost targets for the Engineers.

    Most of these designs strive to be as flat and perfect as can be in an anechoic environment. Others take into account the imperfect environment and are tuned to take advantage of that variable.

    I have a brother who's made a living designing pro equipment into professional environments. He is making scalpels, not butter-knives.

    Scalpels are not very good at spreading butter, you might like spreading butter.

    So then you get into why people might like a vintage AR or KLH more than a new JBL monitor. First, it isn't being set up professionally, second it is not going into an optimized space, third it isn't for critical monitoring, it's for musical enjoyment.

    I spent much of my life spreading butter with scalpels, every time a better scalpel came out I had to try it. Speakers, amplifiers, even sources are completely subjective in a home environment, we like what we like. If you like the warmth of tubes, fried-egg tweeters, vinyl, that is what's best for you. If you want a system that is perfectly accurate in every way, you will need a completely different system.

    So to me the answer is both. You need objective data to get a baseline, without it the world would be only white-van speakers. We can compare speaker specifications (if we understand them) and make some choices based on what we feel will match our systems, our spaces, our expectations, our budgets, and our tastes. From that point we go back to the subjective, audition them and decide what we like.
     
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  17. hbucker

    hbucker Well-Known Member

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    Not even while you're listening to 2112? (Avatar reference)
     
  18. Tom Brennan

    Tom Brennan AK Member

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    Loudspeaker designers can’t even agree on what a perfect speaker should do, much less make one. Designers (and listeners) have a way of considering their preferences to be accuracy.
     
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  19. TudorTurtle

    TudorTurtle Well-Known Member

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    Not surprised by the OP's line of thought.
    When a speaker discussion starts with; Music is background and My hearing isn't great, then I get it; specs and detailed testing are totally unimportant to speaker selection.
     
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  20. Keldog

    Keldog AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Budget is definitely a factor. I COULD afford a moderately expensive system but would not be able to justify it considering my ability and listening habits. Many people who have lost most of their hearing have their brains fill in the missing parts and, therefore, are able to enjoy music they are familiar with while new, unheard compositions sound awful.

    As I stated before, God bless those that have "super hearing" and the budget to fulfill their demands.

    Someone else mentioned data and that may be the only true reference when comparing equipment. It really depends on the end user. Kind of like our tastes in music. I'm heavy metal/70s hard rock, blues and pop, whereas a person that enjoys smooth jazz or contemporary hip hop would find it to be just noise even if it is played on a 20k system.
     

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