My $1,075 AT-LP1240 set

[naimnatnod]

Hello AK,

I'm new here and have been spending some time reading and this is my very first post.

My very first turntable was all-in-one (tt, cassette tape player, AM-FM, amplifier) unit from Radio Shack back in the early 80s. Since then, there were many turntables came in to my life (Technics SL-1700, rega planar 3, Systemdek IIx, 2 Linn LP12s, Rega RP1, Technics SL-1200MkII, Roksan Xerxes, Michell Gyro SE & Michell Orbe SE which is my current one).

Early this year, I was going to introduce a vinyl world to my oldest son so I bought him a Audio Technica AT-LP1240. The price was so little compare to what we got from this unit. At time, I didn't have any MM cartridge around so I had to buy an Ortofon M2 Red and a phono-preamp from Emotiva. Sound was good and better than I thought so with my curiosity, I went out and bought two more famous cartridges - Shure M97xE and Grado Blue.

No, they didn't add up to $1,075 at that time. Yes, there was a hum when I played the Grado toward the inner track close to the spindle. I could hear it only when I turn the volume up. There were no hum present with Shure nor Ortofon. So, the AT-LP1240 is a keeper! I didn't expect much on the unit that cost $350 (recently from time to time, Fry's has a promo code which brings down the price to $288) but I can tell you the sound and ease of use is well worth it.

With the Emotive XPA-1 that is capable of providing both MM & MC, I decided to put a Paradox Pulse (aluminum head) Denon DL-103r on the AT-LP1240 and wanted to find out how a cheap turntable would sound with a cartridge that cost more that the turntable itself. I also changed the included slip-matt with a suede leather matt and added a record weight as well. One word - Wow!

AT-LP1240 - $350
Leather Matt - $35
AT Weight/Stabilizer - $35
Emotiva XPA-1 - $150
Paradox Pulse Denon DL-103r - $475
Ortofon Headshell - $30
Total this analog front end = $1,075

As of now, I am spending 80% of vinyl listening from this baby so the Orbe can take some time to rest. My son he doesn't care if I continue to use it.

 

[tcdriver]

Pretty cool. I like the pictures.

 

[RamblinE]

I assume you have read the less than flattering opinions that a vocal minority constantly shares regarding this series of table. I commend you for coming out with your experience working with it. It's great to hear that for the money, it's a fantastic choice!

 

[iLUVanalog]

Hello AK,

I'm new here and have been spending some time reading and this is my very first post.

My very first turntable was all-in-one (tt, cassette tape player, AM-FM, amplifier) unit from Radio Shack back in the early 80s. Since then, there were many turntables came in to my life (Technics SL-1700, rega planar 3, Systemdek IIx, 2 Linn LP12s, Rega RP1, Technics SL-1200MkII, Roksan Xerxes, Michell Gyro SE & Michell Orbe SE which is my current one).

Early this year, I was going to introduce a vinyl world to my oldest son so I bought him a Audio Technica AT-LP1240. The price was so little compare to what we got from this unit. At time, I didn't have any MM cartridge around so I had to buy an Ortofon M2 Red and a phono-preamp from Emotiva. Sound was good and better than I thought so with my curiosity, I went out and bought two more famous cartridges - Shure M97xE and Grado Blue.

No, they didn't add up to $1,075 at that time. Yes, there was a hum when I played the Grado toward the inner track close to the spindle. I could hear it only when I turn the volume up. There were no hum present with Shure nor Ortofon. So, the AT-LP1240 is a keeper! I didn't expect much on the unit that cost $350 (recently from time to time, Fry's has a promo code which brings down the price to $288) but I can tell you the sound and ease of use is well worth it.

With the Emotive XPA-1 that is capable of providing both MM & MC, I decided to put a Paradox Pulse (aluminum head) Denon DL-103r on the AT-LP1240 and wanted to find out how a cheap turntable would sound with a cartridge that cost more that the turntable itself. I also changed the included slip-matt with a suede leather matt and added a record weight as well. One word - Wow!

AT-LP1240 - $350
Leather Matt - $35
AT Weight/Stabilizer - $35
Emotiva XPA-1 - $150
Paradox Pulse Denon DL-103r - $475
Ortofon Headshell - $30
Total this analog front end = $1,075




Very nice! I am also a proud owner of this (well, not exactly THIS) table. The one I have is the NON-DJ version of the 1240.....the 240. The 240 doesn't have the additional DJ features/functions. The 240 and 1240 are otherwise identical. I much prefer the more Spartan look of the 240. The 240 doesn't have added features and functions that I don't need. My 240 is stock with the exception of the mat. I replaced the stock mat with a Technics Super Mat (1/4" thick) from KAB-USA. Much better with the thicker rubber mat.

 

[naimnatnod]

The aluminum body Denon DL-103r is so heavy and I couldn't find any heavier counter weight, so here is my modified counter weight by adding some lead tape.

Oh, by the way, my Anti-Skating works as normal. I have an new (old stock) Shure test record that has a blank track to test for AS.

 

[Frank Sol]

Looks nice, am happy for you & son

 

[Garven]

Looks really good. A couple of questions for you as I've considered the tt a couple of times now.

1. The buit-in pre-amp in these often gets criticized because even when bypassed, it allegedly affects the signal. I know you're running the AT through the Emotiva. Do you notice much of a difference in sound between the AT and the Orbe running the same cartridge, at least a difference that could be attributed to the built-in At pre-amp? By the way, this may only be relevant for MM cartridges as according to some, the problem is that there are still some capacitors in the circuit even when the pre-amp is bypassed. Thus, they cause the highs on MMs run through in bypassed mode to be rolled off and with a upper midrange boost. Since capacitance not really an issue with MCs, it may not be noticeable when using MCs.

2. You mentioned hum from the Grado, how about with the DL-103r? I posted a question a couple of years ago about MC cartridges and these super-OEM tables and most folks said they wouldn't be compatible since these tables supposedly have poor shielding so the added amplification needed for LOMC would boost it too much.

3. How about motor noise between tracks or during quiet passages? I've been through three Pro-Ject motors now on two tables, all of which had really noticeable motor noise. I've heard samples of needledrops done on the AT-LP120 and a couple of other Hanpin-built tables that have a different but equally annoying motor noise. How's the 1240 in this regard?

Actually, I may have my answer to #3 since after I posted this I Google for more info on the Paradox Pulse 103r and saw this video, which looks to be yours.

https://youtu.be/4ng-bhxXJnc

It sounds (and looks) fantastic with no motor noise whatsoever. I'd pretty much settled on buying a PLX-1000 later this year but this may just put the AT LP1240 back in the running.

4. Have you noticed any play in the tonearm bearings? This problem has shown up with a couple of the folks who bought the PLX-1000 and is apparently quite common among Hanpin-built tables.

 

[Greyson]

I assume you have read the less than flattering opinions that a vocal minority constantly shares regarding this series of table. I commend you for coming out with your experience working with it. It's great to hear that for the money, it's a fantastic choice!

The AT-LP120 and the AT-LP1240 are very different machines.

 

[naimnatnod]

Hi Garven,

To answer your questions:

1. I did try the built-in pre-phono with the 3 mm cartridges that I have (Ortofon Red, Shure M97xE and Grado Blue), I didn't like it at all. It sounded lack of focus, muddy and not very smooth like the sound that I get used to from my main TT. So I bought an external pre-phono from Emotiva model XPA-1 which can support both MM & MC. The sounds from those cartridges are much better and I swear if I didn't have the Orbe to compare side by side, song by song, I would happily live with this set. I have many potted Paradox Pulse Denon DL-103/103r that I was curious how it would sound on this cheap TT(I think $350 for this brand new TT is very cheap). So I put the 103 on first and had to put extra lead tape over the counter weight because the PP103 is about 14.5 grams total. The sound at the very beginning was harsh and metallic. The 103 was new and had less than 10 hours on the Orbe so I let it ran for another 3-4 days as background music before really listen to it again. The sound was improved and opened up but it was not what I expected. So I checked the load impedance on the Emotiva and it was set at 470ohms. I changed it to 100ohms and it sounds much better now. The high, the mid and the bass are all there without any motor noise, hum or unwanted sound.

After that, I switched to the PP103r and changed the load impedance to 470ohm which I like the result on my Orbe/naim phono stage which had a fixed 470ohm. Yes, "Wow!".

I also was thinking of taking the built-in pre-phono out completely but it's out of my ability and the sound that I got now is way way more than I was expected at the beginning. I am very happy with this set up and probably will not do anything for a big while.

2 & 3. The Grada sounded not too bad but and the inner track closer to the spindle, I could hear the hum which was kind of bothering. The result for the 103 & 103r are excellent. There is no motor noise nor hum whatsoever. It's dead silence when it's silence during quiet passages. I'm not a technical guy but I know what sound what I like to hear and what I don't like.

The guy who built the Paradox Pulse is using Pioneer PLX-1000 as well and he's an engineer and knows his stuffs. This is his word "the Pioneer is stupidly good for the money at $700". I shown me the bottom part of the platter which damped with rubberize material. When I got home, I pulled mine out and it's exactly the same as his. I don't think anyone could go wrong with either one or any super-oem TT. To me, LP1240 for $350 is a steal!

4. I don't think I have any problem in this area. I did not adjust anything on the tonearm. The things that I did were, changed to leather matt, added Emotiva XPA-1 pro-phono and put cartridges on.

I have so many LPs to listen to and would want to spend more time listen to my collections. However, from time to time I enjoy listen to something new to my main system as well.

Picture of Pioneer PLX-1000 below belongs to the guy that do the PP103s.

Looks really good. A couple of questions for you as I've considered the tt a couple of times now.

1. The buit-in pre-amp in these often gets criticized because even when bypassed, it allegedly affects the signal. I know you're running the AT through the Emotiva. Do you notice much of a difference in sound between the AT and the Orbe running the same cartridge, at least a difference that could be attributed to the built-in At pre-amp? By the way, this may only be relevant for MM cartridges as according to some, the problem is that there are still some capacitors in the circuit even when the pre-amp is bypassed. Thus, they cause the highs on MMs run through in bypassed mode to be rolled off and with a upper midrange boost. Since capacitance not really an issue with MCs, it may not be noticeable when using MCs.

2. You mentioned hum from the Grado, how about with the DL-103r? I posted a question a couple of years ago about MC cartridges and these super-OEM tables and most folks said they wouldn't be compatible since these tables supposedly have poor shielding so the added amplification needed for LOMC would boost it too much.

3. How about motor noise between tracks or during quiet passages? I've been through three Pro-Ject motors now on two tables, all of which had really noticeable motor noise. I've heard samples of needledrops done on the AT-LP120 and a couple of other Hanpin-built tables that have a different but equally annoying motor noise. How's the 1240 in this regard?

Actually, I may have my answer to #3 since after I posted this I Google for more info on the Paradox Pulse 103r and saw this video, which looks to be yours.

https://youtu.be/4ng-bhxXJnc

It sounds (and looks) fantastic with no motor noise whatsoever. I'd pretty much settled on buying a PLX-1000 later this year but this may just put the AT LP1240 back in the running.

4. Have you noticed any play in the tonearm bearings? This problem has shown up with a couple of the folks who bought the PLX-1000 and is apparently quite common among Hanpin-built tables.

 

[naimnatnod]

Hi Greyson,

I don't know about the 120 but with $100 more ($250 for the 120 at that time) I think it is worth it to get the 1240.

No regret at all!

The AT-LP120 and the AT-LP1240 are very different machines.

 

[Garven]

Hi Garven,

To answer your questions: . . .

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. Those pics looks great, as do yours. By the way, what alignment are you using on your AT, Stevenson or the Technics overhang version ?

 

[naimnatnod]

I was using the template that comes with Hi-Fi News test disc. All 3 spots are right on.

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. Those pics looks great, as do yours. By the way, what alignment are you using on your AT, Stevenson or the Technics overhang version ?

 

[commando]

The biggest problem with that TT is the .1% W&F.

 

[naimnatnod]

Congratulation to you that you would never owned this excellent TT if you only judge it with the spec. on the paper! You may have never owned a Music Hall MMF 9.1 which has W&F of .15% as well. Here's a link for a comparison chart of a bunch of TTs.

https://www.iamthejeff.com/post/13/turntable-comparison-chart

Do you really know what W&F means? Why do you think .1% is the biggest problem on this TT or others that has similar spec? Have you ever owned one of these TTs?

For me and for the price, I really don't care about this nonsense W&F spec. as long as I enjoy my music through it. It's my money and it's my ears!

The biggest problem with that TT is the .1% W&F.

 

[iLUVanalog]

Congratulation to you that you would never owned this excellent TT if you only judge it with the spec. on the paper! You may have never owned a Music Hall MMF 9.1 which has W&F of .15% as well. Here's a link for a comparison chart of a bunch of TTs.

https://www.iamthejeff.com/post/13/turntable-comparison-chart

Do you really know what W&F means? Why do you think .1% is the biggest problem on this TT or others that has similar spec? Have you ever owned one of these TTs?

For me and for the price, I really don't care about this nonsense W&F spec. as long as I enjoy my music through it. It's my money and it's my ears!

Agreed.

0.1% (ONE-TENTH OF A PERCENT)...and the spec represents the "worst case" scenario.

 

[restorer-john]

Congratulation to you that you would never owned this excellent TT if you only judge it with the spec. on the paper! You may have never owned a Music Hall MMF 9.1 which has W&F of .15% as well. Here's a link for a comparison chart of a bunch of TTs.

https://www.iamthejeff.com/post/13/turntable-comparison-chart

Do you really know what W&F means? Why do you think .1% is the biggest problem on this TT or others that has similar spec? Have you ever owned one of these TTs?

For me and for the price, I really don't care about this nonsense W&F spec. as long as I enjoy my music through it. It's my money and it's my ears!

Watch it.

When you've posted more than nine posts around here and you've actually used a calibrated wow and flutter meter on a PLX-1000 and determined its short and long term speed variations are bettered by most synchronous belt drives from the early 1970s, you'll perhaps understand why the seasoned aficionados of actual high fidelity gear around here deride this unit as a cheap knock off of an excellent product.

W&F is not nonsense. Dismissing it is nonsensical.

 

[91r100gs]

Didn't take long for the W & F gang to show up.

 

[DougMac]

Goodness. naimnatnod, I'm glad you are enjoying your new turntable. I think that your setup is very viable for the money you spent. I believe you'd have to at least double the money to make a significant difference if you are buying new.

I happen to believe the specs such as W&F do matter. Beyond the spec itself, it can be an indicator of overall quality. If the designers pay attention to that one spec, it indicates a level of attention to detail. The product to which restorer-john alluded was the venerable Technics SL-1200, which has a W&F measurement of .025 compared to the AT of <.1.

What audible difference does this make? Can you hear the difference between tables with those specs? Honestly, I don't know. Hopefully there are others who can answer that. I have read that a 1khz tone played with .1% W&F sounds fine in a dead room, but can be easily heard and a reverberant room. Piano, oboe and strings, especially high notes on the violin would suffer.

I essentially agree with what restorer-john said, I just wish he had stated it more diplomatically. However, I understand how you, a newcomer here, raised his hackles. Keep in mind he is a well respected contributer here who speaks from a wealth of knowledge and experience.

Personally, I like AT products. I have three different AT carts, AT headphones and two AT arms. I would be surprised it your unit wasn't good, since they do others things so well.

Good listening to you.

 

[Mister Pig]

Watch it.

When you've posted more than nine posts around here and you've actually used a calibrated wow and flutter meter on a PLX-1000 and determined its short and long term speed variations are bettered by most synchronous belt drives from the early 1970s, you'll perhaps understand why the seasoned aficionados of actual high fidelity gear around here deride this unit as a cheap knock off of an excellent product.

W&F is not nonsense. Dismissing it is nonsensical.

Now that is a funny post. Telling an owner of the deck to "watch it", especially since he was the person who was dissed in this to start with. Classy move.

From what I can tell from his first posts, he knows what the W&F flutter numbers are for the deck, and he has a Mitchell Gyro(edit:OrbeSE actually and what looks to be an SME 309) that he uses as his main table. So I would have to say he is actually a "seasoned aficionado of high fidelity gear" as you say.

One thing I get from this thread is that W&F numbers and a presons sensitivity to that may vary. And exactly what is the threshold anyways? This very well could be like the THD wars of years past, where you drive a number below inaudibility, and perhaps ignore an evaluation of the overall performance due to a single spec. Not seeing the forest because of the trees sorta thing. Owners of thousands of belt drive and idler drive tables must have deluded themselves that those contraptions sound good also.

Nice way for certain people to belittle a new member who just has an interesting experience he wants to relate to the forum. That's friendly and inviting for sure.

Personally I have enjoyed reading the thread.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[Garven]

Now that is a funny post. Telling an owner of the deck to "watch it", especially since he was the person who was dissed in this to start with. Classy move.

From what I can tell from his first posts, he knows what the W&F flutter numbers are for the deck, and he has a Mitchell Gyro that he uses as his main table. So I would have to say he is actually a "seasoned aficionado of high fidelity gear" as you say.

One thing I get from this thread is that W&F numbers and a presons sensitivity to that may vary. And exactly what is the threshold anyways? This very well could be like the THD wars of years past, where you drive a number below inaudibility, and perhaps ignore an evaluation of the overall performance due to a single spec. Not seeing the forest because of the trees sorta thing. Owners of thousands of belt drive and idler drive tables must have deluded themselves that those contraptions sound good also.

Nice way for certain people to belittle a new member who just has an interesting experience he wants to relate to the forum. That's friendly and inviting for sure.

Personally I have enjoyed reading the thread.

Regards
Mister Pig

This post should be a sticky! I found restorer-john's post to be quite offensive actually. Any credibility he might have due to his experience and insights was greatly diminished by such a rude and unwelcoming response to a new member who was simply providing a positive contribution by sharing his enthusiasm. As you point out, naimnatnod obviously knows his gear, so let's hope he isn't discouraged by the implied "you're not a member of the good old boys club so your thoughts don't matter" nonsense. Is this an audio forum with helpful sharing of knowledge and experiences from all levels or is it something like a hallway in a high school with a new student being dissed by some rude stuck-up kids who think they're better than everyone?