New Cornwall III

[kink56]

I have been living with my new Cornwall IIIs for only two days now, but have some comments. I also have Heresy III and Forte I with Crites Ti tweeter diaphragms and his crossovers.

I first placed my Cornwalls about 3 inches from the back walls with large Entec subwoofers flanking them, acting as corners. I found the upper bass to be blurred and boomy. I did not expect them to have a fatter bass than the Forte I. (a bit lower yes, but not fatter). I was disappointed. Then after a few hours of experimenting, I now have them simply moved forward and about 10 inches from the back wall. MUCH BETTER! I find the midrange and highs just about the same as the Forte I, but the bass is more defined. In fact, I tried the Cornwalls without my subwoofers (I had done this with the Forte Is too). And this is the first speaker I have ever owned where I could live without subwoofers at all. (not the case with Heresy or Belle). But I put on some CDs with the lowest bass information and my subwoofers do add that very bottom octave gut punch (20Hz to 40Hz) so I will not be relinquishing them.

I find it interesting that many find that just the opposite (moving them closer to the back wall) is where they find the best results. I am happy to find that I could improve my situation after being let down by my first inclination for placement. Of course it would have been less hassle had they sounded best where I first put them, as they are not very easily moved on carpet by myself.



I am happy with my purchase so far. I do need more time with them to solidify my opinion, but so far so good. I am also a bit surprised that the mids are a tad more recessed than any other Klipsch I have had. Which is not bad at all.

 

[steve p]

I also have mine out from the wall 10”. I have mine toed in ever so slightly. No sub with mine though.

 

[SiliconTi]

I have mine set into corners at 45 degrees. Sound great in that config.

 

[kink56]

I had my first set of Cornwall Is put in the corners at 45 degrees, and they did not image or create a good soundstage that way. In fact I did not even know that imaging and soundstaging was a "thing" based on PWK's advice on placement. I placed them there for the most bass. Now imaging is one of my top priorities.

 

[fredgarvin]

I've never had a speaker, front ported or back, or passive radiator that sounded good close to the wall. I think there are people that prefer a bloated sounding bass over soundstage and imaging, which is their prerogative of course. The Forte 1 has the smoothest measured response that I've seen, but I haven't seen the graph for the model III's.. the Forte also has a small dip in the mids that I think leads to a lot of people preferring them.

 

[kink56]

I agree on all counts.

 

[ODS123]

I took me a while to get my CW III's situated where they strike the best balance of bass definition and imaging. Personally, I can't imagine I'd ever need a subwoofer for music. And with movies only when watching movies with tons of deep special affects, which really isn't my thing.

Enjoy them!

 

[kink56]

I do not care about home theatre. My subs are for music. And I do have CDs that have frequencies below the -3dB point of these or any other speaker I have ever had.

I found that the Heresy II I had were shelved down in the frequencies handled by the woofer. Not so with the Heresy III. But the Cornwall III has the opposite, the frequencies handled by the woofer are shelved UP. So, I decided to bi-amp them with a Crown PL-2 for the mids and highs, The crown has adjustable outputs, so now I can trim the mids and highs to match the woofer on the Cornwall. Because no matter how I place them, the bass is still a tad too strong can it tends to mask the mids and highs. Even though I have tone controls, they really slant the frequency response. Whereas balancing the output between the woofer and the mid and highs is more linear.

 

[ODS123]

I do not care about home theatre. My subs are for music. And I do have CDs that have frequencies below the -3dB point of these or any other speaker I have ever had.

I found that the Heresy II I had were shelved down in the frequencies handled by the woofer. Not so with the Heresy III. But the Cornwall III has the opposite, the frequencies handled by the woofer are shelved UP. So, I decided to bi-amp them with a Crown PL-2 for the mids and highs, The crown has adjustable outputs, so now I can trim the mids and highs to match the woofer on the Cornwall. Because no matter how I place them, the bass is still a tad too strong can it tends to mask the mids and highs. Even though I have tone controls, they really slant the frequency response. Whereas balancing the output between the woofer and the mid and highs is more linear.

All I can say is that I spent a lot of time finding the optimal placement for the speakers. I was happy when the best spot was NOT a spot far out into the room as that would have made them even more imposing looking. ..As for tone controls, I have 'em and love 'em but I don't use them as room correction EQ per se, rather I use them ad hoc when I play a song that is a bit too bright OR the bass energy is causing the plates and glasses to rattle.

No speaker is perfect. ..But I have found my Cornwall IIIs to be the most enjoyable speakers I've ever owned and I've owned some very nice ones

 

[kink56]

After living with them for a few days, I prefer my Forte I. The Cornwalls just have too much bass energy. I do not mean too much extension, but rather a resonant hump. It affects the tonality of the entire spectrum. I cannot find a placement that tames a certain bass hump I am guessing around 100-200hz. Not as bad as the Belles I had, but still there. The Heresy III have this too, but I could eliminate it by putting those on 15" stands.

 

[SPEC2man]

Don't forget, they need a few hundred hours to beak in - give a few good "all day" workouts and see if things mellow out. The Crown is a fun little amplifier ... I was always on the hunt for one of those little Crown stacks. SL-2, a couple PL-2, the FM-2, SA-2. I could never pull it off. I did have the DC-300A Series II and two DC 150A Series II and couple D45's - the VFX2 crossover and the IC-150A all rack mounted. I was running Heresy II's and a passive 15 inch JBL pro sub. Holy cow was that a fun setup in a big living room (25 X 30 w/10 foot ceilings) I had the Heresy's mounted on the walls pointed slightly down about 7 feet high. The sub was hidden in a corner. I added an EQ and worked with a crossover to get things dialed in - it took some time. In some ways it was one of the better systems I ever had. I always wanted the Corwalls but they are highly sought after in the used market.

Good luck ...

 

[kink56]

Well, I hope they break in. Now the bass sounds like a juke box.

 

[fredgarvin]

After living with them for a few days, I prefer my Forte I. The Cornwalls just have too much bass energy. I do not mean too much extension, but rather a resonant hump. It affects the tonality of the entire spectrum. I cannot find a placement that tames a certain bass hump I am guessing around 100-200hz. Not as bad as the Belles I had, but still there. The Heresy III have this too, but I could eliminate it by putting those on 15" stands.

Here is an independently measured plot for the Cornwall II. I imagine the III isn;t far off of that. There is a large peak at 100db and there is a pretty good dip at the Xover point around 600, I'm guessing. There is also significant cabinet resonance at 100db. The listening evaluation of the Cornwall reported them as excellent in honest, uncolored reproduction.

https://files.computeraudiophile.com/2013/1202/Klipsch_Cornwall_Test_Report.pdf

The Forte does measure much smoother though.

https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3f...cdn.com/product-specsheets/forte-brochure.pdf

 

[kink56]

Suspicions confirmed. Yes and the Belles had a similar (but subjectively worse) problem in the 120-150Hz area. That settles it. I am not going to even try to replace my Forte I anymore. It goes to show you cannot judge a speaker by its almost universal praise. A LOT of people like that bass hump it seems in most of the Heritage Klipsch line. I think the Forte I and the Forte II are probably the most neutral of the older Klipsch speakers.

 

[ODS123]

Here is an independently measured plot for the Cornwall II. I imagine the III isn;t far off of that. There is a large peak at 100db and there is a pretty good dip at the Xover point around 600, I'm guessing. There is also significant cabinet resonance at 100db. The listening evaluation of the Cornwall reported them as excellent in honest, uncolored reproduction.

https://files.computeraudiophile.com/2013/1202/Klipsch_Cornwall_Test_Report.pdf

The Forte does measure much smoother though.

https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3f...cdn.com/product-specsheets/forte-brochure.pdf

Why would you assume the CW III isn't "far off that" when it uses different drivers and has a braced cabinet?? You're providing measurements from previous generations of both speakers. I'm not sure you can glean much at all from them.

 

[ODS123]

After living with them for a few days, I prefer my Forte I. The Cornwalls just have too much bass energy. I do not mean too much extension, but rather a resonant hump. It affects the tonality of the entire spectrum. I

I don't hear any of this whatsoever. In my setup the bass is tight, extended and very musical sounding. ..Could be your room is simply too small or perhaps you have other room anomalies at play. A great many other people have these speakers and report no such resonances. And I wouldn't assume it's because you have better hearing or you are more discerning than all of them. ..Still, it's how they sound to you and in your space that matters so I'd definitely take them back.

 

[moray james]

You might want to check out a pair of Chorus ll rather than a CWlll. The Chorus was the Klipsch replacement for the Cornwall. The Chorus has a better and larger mid horn (as used in the Forte ll) as well as the K79 tweeter same as in your Forte. The woofer in the Chorus is not the K33 but a pro unit (K48).

The chorus is a loudspeaker which will play on smaller amps and sound fine but it really responds to some good clean power. If you like the Forte you will love the Chorus ll. Of course you can upgrade to all ti diaphragms and fresh caps. It is not a Cornwall.

https://f072605def1c9a5ef179-a0bc3f...com/product-specsheets/Chorus-II-brochure.pdf

 

[fredgarvin]

Why would you assume the CW III isn't "far off that" when it uses different drivers and has a braced cabinet?? You're providing measurements from previous generations of both speakers. I'm not sure you can glean much at all from them.

Show me otherwise when you find the measurements for the III. Until then you have your assumption and I have mine.

 

[ODS123]

Show me otherwise when you find the measurements for the III. Until then you have your assumption and I have mine.

What do you mean? The measurement you reference are for a speaker that is the same in name only. ..It has different drivers, different crossover, different cabinet, different efficiency, etc. than the present Cornwall III.

So you can go ahead and assume it measures the same, but people following this thread probably won't.

You seem to appreciate the importance of specifications and measurements but then discount an all important one, namely: The Cornwall II and the Cornwall III are NOT the SAME speaker.

 

[fredgarvin]

What do you mean? The measurement you reference are for a speaker that is the same in name only. ..It has different drivers, different cabinet, different efficiency, etc..

So you can go ahead and assume it measures the same, but people following this thread probably won't.

I never assumed it would measure the same. Those are your words. I said "not far off." I do think it will measure similarly, the bass energy in that region is what makes a Cornwall sound like a Cornwall. With the raised woofer it may have a somewhat lesser peak, due to lesser floor reflection.

Resume your assumption without mixing your words in with mine.