Re-branded Tubes

[gearhound]

Been finding some interesting re-branded NOS tubes lately:

National 12AT7, Made In Yugoslavia..........Ei Grey Plate
National 12AT7, Made In England..............60's Mullard CV4024
National 6SL7GT, Made In USA.................National Union Black Glass, Bottom D Getter
National 6922, Made In Japan...................Mitsushita
GE 5961, Made In USA............................RCA
CEI 6V6GT, Made In USA.........................GE
RCA 6V6GTA, Made In USA.......................GE
Westinghouse 7408, Made In USA..............GE
Realistic 6SL7GT, Made In USA..................Sylvania Black Plate, Bottom Getter

Seems that often (but NOT always), that a re-branded tube can kind of slip under the radar?
While you DO have to be careful of FAKES (i.e., Russian or Chinese tubes) with MADE IN USA, MADE IN GERMANY, etc. printed on them.
Sometimes you can find a real GEM, among those re-branded tubes. :yes:

Steve

 

[byoungman1]

I have always wondered how tube companies originally warrantied tubes they sold that were made by other companies. i.e., I see a lot of RCA-labeled tubes that were actually made by GE and vice-versa. Seems like a bit of a liability/nightmare (?)
Any ideas?

 

[gearhound]

I think if you bought a NOS tube from a tube vendor, and it dropped dead soon afterwards.
You could send it back to the tube vendor to deal with?

Steve

 

[scottfan]

Mullard coded 12ax7 labeled as a Telefunken(have 2).

 

[ronaldw441]

You never know what you'll find in a National box. Picked up a NOS Mullard CV1377 (military GZ34) in a National box a few months ago for $8. Nice!

 

[kvflyer]

Tube manufacturers were always buying and selling to each other.

Some examples:

7591 labeled RCA with the numbers on the side were made by Sylvania. It is doubtful that RCA ever made a 7591.

6GH8 tubes labeled RCA used mostly in color television receivers that have the numbers on the side of the envelope, not inside of the "stop sign" were Sylvania made.

Tubes with etched numbers on the side of the envelope with a sequence of dots below are manufactured by GE, regardless of labeling. Often they will have GE's number 188 on the glass. Westinghouse is 337, RCA is 274 etc.

Tubes would be warrantied by the seller (label) not the manufacturer since they were sold by the "labeler". HH Scott usually had their 7591 tubes manufactured by Westinghouse, the original designer of that tube. They will have "337" on the base. Later Scott amplifiers used a 5AR4 (not 5AR4/GZ34) that was clearly labeled HH Scott but was made by GE. It had the etched markings and the 188 on the base. Most likely a large $$$ savings by Scott when it was getting on its decline.

 

[Stephen J]

This is a favorite topic of mine as of late. I have been sorting and testing a large pile o' tubes. I've run across :


GE branded Mullard EL84's
RCA branded Telefunken 6BM8's
GE branded Mullard 6BM8's
GE branded made in France Amperex 6BM8's
Sylvania branded Amperex EL84's
GE branded Tung-Sol 6550's are pretty common
I have a Westinghouse 6550 that is a Chinese made fake.( couple of them actually)
Phillips branded Sylvania small signal tubes.And a Sylvania branded GE 6V6 GTA just to name a few.

My two recent favorites are

A Telefunken Branded 801S, that is actually a USA made 12AT7WA pretty sure its a Sylvania

And an RCA branded Mullard 12AT7

 

[audiodon]

I've got the same tube as that last one shown, but it was labeled as a 12AX7. It was never used because it's really a 12AT7 mislabled.
So, first it's a rebranded RCA.
Second it's mislabeled as a 12AX7 when it's a 12AT7
Third, it was NOS because of the mislabeling and was actually free.

 

[UnGrounded]

One thing that always got me: I've seen numerous 6AQ8/ECC85 tubes in layouts of U.S. equipment, but every actual 6AQ8 I've seen has been european. I'm sure some US manufacturers made 6AQ8's, but I have yet to find ANY.

A couple 6AQ8's in my collection:
1) A tube labeled "Standard Tuner" with some cursive script, made by Amperex
2) An RCA label, made by Siemens

Some other re-labels in my collection:
Siemens EL84 pair, with Telefunken label
Mullard 6EU7, with Amperex bugle boy label
Mullard EL84 pair, with GE label (like Stephen J's)

 

[gearhound]

I actually forgot a few, in my original post:

Magnavox 6V6GT, MADE IN USA......................................RCA Gray Plate, Clear Glass
National 6SL7GT, MADE IN USA.......................................RCA Black Plate, Clear Glass
CEI EF86, MADE IN GERMANY..........................................Siemens (?)

Steve

 

[UnGrounded]

Stephen J,

Wow, that Sylvania 12AT7WA / Tele ECC801 is really remarkable.

It's a big eye-opener to see a "premium" Telefunken ECC801 actually just being a very common Sylvania 12AT7WA (of which I personally have 3 or 4 laying around, including a nice gold-label).

Is the added "0" in "ECC81" the european "ruggedized" code??

EDIT: Also, those RCA labels made with baked enamel always catch my attention. I bought a quad of Ei-Yugo smooth-plate ECC83's from an old electronics shop that had the RCA enamel logo and the RCA "Country Of Origin As Marked On Tube" boxes... RCA's last gasp for the tube market?

 

[skriefal]

I have a 5-tube sleeve of NOS Raytheon 6GH8As that are relabeled UK Mullards. Was a bit surprised by that one...

Also a pair of 6BQ5s that appear to be Tungsram tubes from Hungary, but relabeled by Ei/Yugo and then again by GE.

 

[dsndblm]

I have three of the RCA "GT Britain" tubes, nice sounding for sure.

It seems everybody bought from everybody and relabled as needed. I'm listening to my SE 45 amp this morning. I have ST style 45's in it at the moment, one is a Tungsol, the other labled RCA, they are identical tubes.

A couple of years ago at a swap meet I bought a Sylvania 12AX7 in the newer style yellow Sylvania box. I've still been unable to figure out exactly what that tube is. It has plates twice as tall as any 12AX7 I've seen. It tests way too strong for a 12AX7, sounds terrible in a 12AX7 circuit, won't work as a 12AT7 in my tuners. I suppose they has a order to fill and placed my mystery tube in the box.

I have around 60 6AV5's that are labeled by everyone but Westinghouse. They are all basically identical internally, some minor differences in the dimensions of the glass and bases.

 

[UnGrounded]

dsndblm:

Your comment about a mystery 12AX7 that has very long plates and tests way too strong for a 12AX7 reminds me of my mystery tube. See pics below.

The micas are very similar to my Brimars: the micas are paper thin and have an identical cut.

Also, I don't think Brimar etched codes into their tubes, as seemingly all other Euro companies did.

So, it has some Brimar traits, but I haven't seen a Brimar 12AT7 or 12AX7 with plates even close to these. I've seen Brimar "Box" plates, but none have looked like these.

It tests like a 12AT7 on my Hickok 800. A 12AX7 tests new @ 1250 Gm, while I believe a 12AT7 tests @ 4000... so way off.

It is labeled "Mytron 12AX7A USA/ZCF" and came in a Mytron 12AX7 box.

 

[dsndblm]

Ungrounded,

Your mystery tube looks very close to mine. Thanks for the pics and information.

I've never heard of "Mytron" Do you have any information on the company? Maybe a European company?

 

[UnGrounded]

Yeah, Mytron must have been a small company, and I'm sure they only re-branded and never made tubes.

I also have a nos RCA 6BQ5 labeled "Mytron", in it's original Mytron box.

I am certain that Mytron is American. Also, these tubes are only labeled with US tube numbers (no "ECC83" or "EL84")

 

[diamondsouled]

I've got the same tube as that last one shown, but it was labeled as a 12AX7. It was never used because it's really a 12AT7 mislabled.
So, first it's a rebranded RCA.
Second it's mislabeled as a 12AX7 when it's a 12AT7
Third, it was NOS because of the mislabeling and was actually free.

Have you put that tube on a tester to make sure it really isn't a 12AX7?

RFT made 12AX7s that look exactly like a 12AT7. The were relabeled by several tube companies. I have some that are labeled RCA.

http://www.tubemongerlib.com/gallery2/v/12AX7/?g2_page=15

RFT also made 12AU7s that look just like their 12AT7s. :yes: I've got several of them around here.

They are very nice tubes actually though and guitar players love them :thmbsp:

 

[audiodon]

Has the winged plates of a 12AT7.
12AT7s are a high mu triode. This one tested way over new, far higher than a 12AT7 would test.
Good call though. If it didn't have the winged plates, it never would have come to my attention as possibly being an AT7.

 

[RogerKulp]

My Airline console has a mix of tubes,about half Wells-Gardener,and half Airline.A couple of the Airlines are labelled Super Wards Airline,and say "Made In Germany" Seimens? Telefunken? The one I have pulled out here is an ECL86/6GW8.On the back of the tube,it says WSE≠5C.