Setting Anti-Skate with a Test Record

[GPJeff]

A couple of years ago I bought the RCOA test record (shown below) at an estate sale. I took it out over the weekend (well actually I found it in my collection) and decided to put it to use. I used the Left Right channel test to set the azimuth. I am curious how to set the anti-skate. The booklet that can with the record was not included with the record at the estate sale.

I know that there have been a million threads about anti-skate, the pros and cons, etc. I'm hoping to avoid this.

Using the test record - I am trying to set the anti-skate on my VPI Scout 1.1 with the dumbbell type anti-skate (no anti-skate dial).

Should the tonearm be set to stand still, slowly pull back to the outer edge of the record, or swiftly pull back to the outer edge of the record?
Thanks

http://www.discogs.com/No-Artist-RCOA-Stereo-Systems-Test-Record/release/1381948

 

[Zvezda]

This is an endless debate that I don't expect to see resolved in my lifetime. I used a blank, grooveless track to set anti-skate and it worked great for me. Balance seemed better and there was a definite reduction in mistracking and sibilance on most of my problem LPs.

 

[WaynerN]

This is an endless debate that I don't expect to see resolved in my lifetime. I used a blank, grooveless track to set anti-skate and it worked great for me. Balance seemed better and there was a definite reduction in mistracking and sibilance on most of my problem LPs.

+1. Some test records (designed by really smart people) have blank areas in them for setting anti-skate.

The proof is several fold. 1) I have excellent stereo imaging. 2) There is no evidence of uneven record wear. 3) stylus wear is symmetrical. 4) stylus appears centered as it should when playing records. If the blank disc method is wrong, then there should be some evidence to support it, which there is not.

It's that simple.......

 

[cartop]

I use a Laser disc movie to set mine and it works well.

 

[Zvezda]

Why is this an endless debate?

Simply because I recall the last thread about this topic went 10+ pages without reaching a consensus.

The blank disc method is good enough for me.

 

[Searing75]

With a blank disc though you are not applying the very force that causes the need for anti-skate in the first place.

 

[illini]

With a blank disc though you are not applying the very force that caimportantses the need for anti-skate in the first place.

Yep!

One must use an actual grooved anti-skate test track. Hi-fi news test lp (hfn-002) has anti-skate tracks. A brutal but important test.

 

[GPJeff]

Using the test record - I am trying to set the anti-skate on my VPI Scout 1.1 with the dumbbell type anti-skate (no anti-skate dial).

Should the tonearm be set to stand still, slowly pull back to the outer edge of the record, or swiftly pull back to the outer edge of the record?
Thanks

So how should the tonearm behave in the blank disc space?

 

[lini]

tns: Sorry, but the groove spiral isn't the actual reason for the skating - instead, the reason for the skating simply is that the drag isn't in line with the virtual arm axis (between needle tip and arm pivot), so that the arm would like to swivel in on the direction of the drag. The groove spiral just is the reason that that swivel motion is inhibited by holding the needle in place, so that only the the force behind that inhibited motion remains as skating force.

Well, and the blank disc method indeed seems somewhat problematic, already because in the "tip of tip on blank disc"-scenario the normal force pretty much equals the tracking force (minus a bit due to vertical skating), while in the "flanks of tip in groove"-scenario the normal force is ca. 1.4 times the tracking force (minus a bit due to vertical skating). In addition, it wouldn't seem all too likely the the actual friction coefficient for "tip of tip on blank disc" happens to be ca. 1.4 times higher than for "flanks of tip in modulated groove" to compensate for the lower normal force, especially as the very tip of the tip isn't intended to be in contact with the record during playback anyway, so that different tips might very well somewhat vary in terms of their friction coefficent with the blank vinyl...

Hence I'm more of a fan of the modified "test disc with modulation test tracks" method. Modified in that way, that one would first set the antiskating that way that both channels should begin to distort at the same modulation, but then reduce the setting again, the more than some 50 to 60 µm the cart/needle manages, in order to optimise the setting for an average modulation. However, that also is just an approximation - so to people who can't live with that I'd recommend to buy a linear tracker.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[dmckean]

I've set it both ways and it always end up being practically the same?

 

[kaplang]

This is an endless debate that I don't expect to see resolved in my lifetime. I used a blank, grooveless track to set anti-skate and it worked great for me. Balance seemed better and there was a definite reduction in mistracking and sibilance on most of my problem LPs.

I use a laser disc to set my anti skate. With the platter spinning I adjust the weight or spring mecinisum so the tone arm stays in the same position about 20% in from the start of the disc. I Started using it because I did not have a groove less record and the laser disc I feel works the same.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

You don't use a blank disc to check anti-skating! Nothing should be holding the arm in place!! I use 1/2 the tracking force for anti-skating, sounds the best to me. IMO, people use too much anti-skating.

 

[Searing75]

how would a blank disc recreate the pull that occurs from playing an actual grooved Lp? It can't. This is like saying you set your headlight angles of your car during the day.

 

[Grbluen]

My question would be, since we have the test records available, why not use them? My only caveat would be to not try to pass all the tests.

 

[Searing75]

I ordered the HiFi news test Lp Monday. Looking forward to seeing if I can get good results with this Rek-O-Kut arm that is their imitation of a technics arm? Eventually I am ordering an Origin Live Alluance though. I have done a great deal of research, and feel that the test Lp is the best way to go.

 

[GPJeff]

To answer my question, on the test record that I have, I found that the blank space actually has fine grooves in the blank space looking area. The tonearm should remain still.

On the VPI Scout with the dumb bell anti-skate, I only used 2 of the o-rings at the very edge of the metal shaft and rotated the base of the anti-skate mechanism.

A note- without any anti-skate, the tonearm will move toward the inner grooves of the record.

 

[WaynerN]

Several factors influence the skating effect. 1) The vertical tracking force is one of them. 2) The offset angle is another (the greater the offset angle (boats rudder) the more skating effect. 3) There is more surface on one side of the stylus then the other and like electricity seeks the path of least resistance. If you use a blank disc, you will already know that the stylus will actually cut a non-modulated groove. It is a diamond after all. The Blank disc also lets the operator know that the AS actually works!

Again, if you don't like the method, that is fine, don't use it. I like the method and have used it for decades.

 

[zowie]

So how should the tonearm behave in the blank disc space?

It should stand still with ZERO anti-skating as long as the TT is level and there are no problems with the bearings. Why wouldn't it? If it doesn't something's wrong that should be addressed directly, not with anti-skating.

 

[zowie]

Some people may be talking across each other. There are discs with blank bands -- flat uncut surfaces. These are not useful for setting anti-skating. They might be useful for troubleshooting other problems. Then there are discs with blank grooves. Cut-discs with no program material. These are somewhat useful for setting anti-skating.

 

[for_p1]

Some people may be talking across each other. There are discs with blank bands -- flat uncut surfaces. These are not useful for setting anti-skating. They might be useful for troubleshooting other problems. Then there are discs with blank grooves. Cut-discs with no program material. These are somewhat useful for setting anti-skating.

Neither of these are useful. Usually anti-scating force is adjusted to reach breaking point in tracking of over-modulated record: distortion should beging at the same time in both left and right channels. Standard test records have tracks for that.