Sony TAF670ES capacitor question

[PTL-Pioneer]

Hi guys looking at the parts list for that Sony all electrolytic caps are listed in the following format
4.7uf 50v 20%

From what I can see they are all 20% for the electrolytics. Does this mean I can replace with nichicon upw series? Or should I use the ukl series?

Bit confused here, any help appreciated,I know the pioneer units specify low leakage in places.
If they are all listed as 20% i assume that they are not low leakage types?

 

[mbz]

Have not seen the list, so this is just general comments. My current strategy is,
Main caps: Nichicon KW (small/medium amps), United ChemiCon SMH/KMH for large amps
Power Supply: Nichicon PW
Audio Path: Elna Silmic II's
Local Power rails: Elna Silmic II's
Bipolar, audio path: Nichicon ES
Bipolar: Power supply: Nichicon EP
Low Noise/Leakage(phono and preamp): Nichicon KL, some prefer MKS2

So for me it's about selecting the most appropriate for the task. Certainly use KL or MKS2 in the phono stage and preamp as replacement
for the existing low leakage caps, normally orange colour, maybe pale green. Some suggest replacing the audio path caps with KL/MKS.
Would not use KL in the power supply.

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

Thanks for the reply, my issue is that i am not sure which capacitors are where, signal path etc.
For the power supply i should be able to grasp that, as regards the rest, still confused.
I will know more tomorrow when i open it up. Was just trying to get a handle on what parts i will need.
I am not really able to read a schematic as of yet either.
Thanks for your patience and help

 

[mbz]

The following is working off the SM, there may be errors/differences between
the SM and what is actually installed. You need to check carefully. Carefully
check orientation, and uf/voltage before removal. Download the cap datasheets
from Mouser or ..., they give the cap dimensions which may be needed.

Maybe post that list and I'll correct my mistakes.

PHONO STAGE
C402 4.7/50 KL
C406 100/16 Silmic II
C403 470/16 KL or Silmic
C408 10/50 KL

EQ BOARD
C302 4.7/50 KL
C310, C311 1000/63 Silmic (might be too big? Nichicon FG?)
C304,5 100/25 KL or Silmic
C318 100/63 Silmic


MAIN BOARD
C312 47/50 KL or Silmic

MUTE BOARD
C512 3.3/63 PW
C511 47/63 PW

MUTE LED BOARD
C513 4.7/50 PW
C517 100/25 PW

POWER SUPPLY
C501,2 12000/63, UCC SMH, Consider 80V
C509 1/100 PW
C507,8 12000/63, UCC SMH, Consider 80V
C510 470/63 PW

C503,4 5600/63 PW
C409,10 100/50 PW
C413,4 1000/25 PW

 

[Goldie99]

Could I just ask what the motivation is behind the recap ? e.g., are you having any problems with the amp ?

I have several early(ish) Sony ES models from a similar era (TA-F222ES, TA-F444ES, TA-F500ES & TA-F530ES), and have found them to be very reliable vis a vis caps - the 222 is actually the only one I've fully recapped.

The areas I have found to warrant more attention are any fusible resistors, and any relays. Be careful also if there's any rotary remote switches - they can be cleaned, with care, but are otherwise unobtainable now.

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

No major motivation really except relay takes about 8-10 seconds at least to kick in. Unit is over 20 years old. Redoing the amp will gain me much needed experience and increase the longevity if the amp. Ak is always talking about a limited capacitor lifespan.
Are the relays readily available? Not really sure what a fusible resistor is, or where to find them, even with a schematic. I'll be opening it up tomorrow for some recon. I'll check what I have vs the list so kindly provided by MBZ also

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

The following is working off the SM, there may be errors/differences between
the SM and what is actually installed. You need to check carefully. Carefully
check orientation, and uf/voltage before removal. Download the cap datasheets
from Mouser or ..., they give the cap dimensions which may be needed.

Maybe post that list and I'll correct my mistakes.

PHONO STAGE
C402 4.7/50 KL
C406 100/16 Silmic II
C403 470/16 KL or Silmic
C408 10/50 KL

EQ BOARD
C302 4.7/50 KL
C310, C311 1000/63 Silmic (might be too big? Nichicon FG?)
C304,5 100/25 KL or Silmic
C318 100/63 Silmic


MAIN BOARD
C312 47/50 KL or Silmic

MUTE BOARD
C512 3.3/63 PW
C511 47/63 PW

MUTE LED BOARD
C513 4.7/50 PW
C517 100/25 PW

POWER SUPPLY
C501,2 12000/63, UCC SMH, Consider 80V
C509 1/100 PW
C507,8 12000/63, UCC SMH, Consider 80V
C510 470/63 PW

C503,4 5600/63 PW
C409,10 100/50 PW
C413,4 1000/25 PW

Thank you for this very much appreciated

 

[mbz]

No major motivation really except relay takes about 8-10 seconds at least to kick in.

I wouldn't be concerned about this, gives plenty of time for the startup transients to settle. I'd be more concerned if the relay kicked in after 2-3 seconds.

Redoing the amp will gain me much needed experience and increase the longevity if the amp.

Learning is a great motive. Maybe do the recap in stages, starting with the power supply which generally takes a hammering. Also have a good listen to
the amp, if it sounds a bit dull/flat then it would probably benifit from recapping the audio path etc... Goldie99 is on the money, there is more to this than just recapping.
Things like setting bias/dc offset and maybe replacing the trimmers. Switches, FR's and dry solder joints very often cause problems. Maybe you need some tools like
DBT, an audio probe,,,, lots to learn.

Not really sure what a fusible resistor is, or where to find them, even with a schematic.

Basically a resistor with a resonably precise current rating that when exceeded will fail open rather than smoke/flame. Generally white in colour. The SM parts
section should list them showing both resistance and current rating.

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

Ok thanks, have a dbt and a multi meter.
And a decent soldering iron. Opened her up this morning

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

Nichicon muse, was someone in here before me?

 

[Goldie99]

No major motivation really except relay takes about 8-10 seconds at least to kick in. Unit is over 20 years old. Redoing the amp will gain me much needed experience and increase the longevity if the amp.

Relay timing is set fairly slow in these models anyway, so 8-10" may be quite normal. If you want to check, just replace C517 only, that should be the cap controlling it.

The TA-F670ES is a good quality, well build, amp, that won't be the simplest to work on, so I'd just advise caution if it's your first recap... it might be wise to start on something more straightforward, or if not, to take it very slowly (with LOTS of photos - for reference).

The fusibles by the way are listed in the service manual (on hifiengine.com if you need it still), as fusible resistors. They're actually usually a distinctive green-blue colour. As mbz said, they fail 'open' and are flameproof, but they also have an annoying tendency to drift to higher resistance over time, hence the need to check them also.

 

[Goldie99]

Nichicon muse & Elna caps were factory standard.

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

This will be my third unit to work on. Previously worked on pioneer sx750 and sx690.
Both were successful,but was easier with the pioneer stuff because of the amount of info available etc.
Can the boards be removed from the Sony to work on?
That bank of resistors (in one of my images) has left some heat marks on the board too, are they worthwhile replacing?

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

So fusible resistors to be replaced.
Full deox required.
Relays to be checked. No idea how to do that?
I am to verify the lists kindly provided here against what is actually in the unit.

 

[Goldie99]

Only necessary to replace the fusibles if they've gone high.
The 'hot' resistors are probably in the power supply, should probably be checked / changed, and mounted 'off' the board a bit, to maximise airflow.

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

Ok here is the first board - Main Board -

Cap Number - UF - Voltage - Capacitor to replace with

C501 - 12000uf 63v - other
C502 - 12000uf 63v - other
C503 - 5600uf 63v - other
C504 - 5600uf 63v -other
C509 - 1uf 100v - Nichicon UPW
C510 - 470uf 63v - Nichicon UPW
C517 - 100uf 25v - Nichicon UPW
C519 - 100uf 25v -- Nichicon UPW

C312 - 47uf 50v - Nichicon UKL
C362 - 47uf 50v - Nichicon UKL

EQ Board.

C368 - 100uf 63v Nichicon UPW
C352 - 4.7uf 50v Nichicon UPW
C357 - 47uf 50v Nichicon UPW
C311 - 1000uf 63v - Nichicon FG
C310 - 1000uf 63v - Nichicon FG
C318 - 100uf 63v - Nichicon UKL
C302 - 4.7uf 50v - Nichicon UKL
C354 - 100uf 25v (not in service manual)
C355 - 100uf 25v (not in service manual)
C304 - 100uf 25v (service manual looks for 50v)
C305 - 100uf 25v (service manual looks for 50v)
C307 - 47uf 50v Nichicon UPW
C413 - 1000uf 25v - UKL Nichicon
C414 - 1000uf 25v - UKL Nichicon
C406 -100uf 16v - UKL Nichicon
C408 - 10uf 50v - UPW Nichicon

C409 -100uf 50v UPW Nichicon
C410 - 100uf 50v UPW Nichicon
C458 - 10uf 50v UPW Nichicon
C403 - 470uf 16v - UKL Nichicon
C453 - 470uf 16v - UKL Nichicon
C402 - 4.7uf 50v - UKL Nichicon
C452 - 4.7uf 50v - UKL Nichicon

Actually some of them are not in the service manual, bit strange.

Tone Board
C512 - 3.3uf 63v - Nichicon UPW
C511 - 47uf 63v - Nichicon UPW
C513 - 4.7uf 50v - Nichicon UPW

 

[mbz]

C501 - 12000uf 63v - Nichicon UPW
C502 - 12000uf 63v - Nichicon UPW
C503 - 5600uf 63v - Nichicon UPW
C504 - 5600uf 63v - Nichicon UPW

Wasn't aware that PW's came in such large sizes. My (old) data sheets show 2200/63V as the largest 63V item.

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

changed it there, apologies! United chemicon or another is what ill have to look for
Just working my way through the phono/eq board at the minute, and will update the list again, thanks!!

I am sorry for taking so long, i am trying to make sure i take things apart slowly.
Again thanks for you help and patience

 

[PTL-Pioneer]

Ok i have updated the list again. Are the cap type selections ok?

Also -to the "burnt" resistors
R422 through R429 are listed in service manual as 1.2k 5% - 1/4 watt

On my board:
R422 - Colour code - brown,blue,red,gold = 1.6K 5%
R423 - Colour code - brown,blue,red,gold = 1.6K 5%
R424 - Colour code - Orange,white,brown,gold = 390 ohms 5%
R425 - Colour code - red,white,red,gold = 2.9k 5%
R426 - Colour code - red,white,red,gold = 2.9k 5%
R427 - Colour code - Orange,white,brown,gold = 390 ohms 5%
R428 - Colour code - brown,blue,red,gold = 1.6K 5%
R429 - Colour code - brown,blue,red,gold = 1.6K 5%

All are bigger than the other resistors so i assume they are 1/2 watt????

 

[mbz]

C310,311 I think Nichicon FG would be a better choice, 18x35.5mm, alternatively PW.
Generally, using KL in the power supply area is not a good idea, need something to
deal with the voltage ripple, even after regulation, Nichicon PW would be a better
choice.

Regarding the resisters, yes there will be difference between the SM and what's actually
installed. If it looks original then work off what's installed, likewise with the 1/2W
power rating. Power supply resistors may show some discolouration however they should
not be near burnt. May point to problems elsewhere. From the schematic, R430,1 are 2.4k 0.5W
but dissipation is closer to 0.6W. Maybe go for 1W resistors, a little expensive.