Who makes LP Gear Vivid Line?

[bobins08]

I moved my M97xE with Vivid Line stylus from my office system onto my marcmorinized AR XB in my main system. First time I played it in this system with all my recent improvements (speakers, cables, power conditioning, etc).

I really like the sound this combination produces. I have never heard a SAS on my M97 but I do have a SAS on my V15-III and the M97 w/VL is in the same league. Not the same, but equally enjoyable and better in some aspects.

I am considering an OEM Ortofon STY 20 for my OM cartridge and someone mentioned the LPGear VL for it (turns out they don't have a VL but they have another "improved performance" option).

So to my questions .... what is a VL exactly? Is it a hyper elliptical of some sort? Who makes them?

Could it be Jico? Nagaoka? AT?

 

[malden]

I've read elsewhere in this forum that the after-market Shure "Vivid Line" styli do not have the same build structure as those made by JICO. I own about a dozen JICO styli for various Shure cartridges and they are all built like the originals. Identical magnets, suspension structure and the presence of tie wires. This is not true for other after-market Shure styli such as EVG, Pfanstiehl and Ed Saunders. All of which have round, rather than square magnets, fewer components in the suspensions and no tie-wires.

Whether or not JICO manufacture the "VL" or any of the others is any ones guess, but I'm glad you are enjoying it...

 

[ghamilton]

I ask lpgear that question and they said they cannot reveal that. Some kind of policy.

 

[malden]

I'm pretty sure it's made by Jico and is in all respects the same as the Jico Shibata except for the unmarked stylus grip and the critical lack of a tie wire, which reduces high end focus. However, I don't have the Shure models, so I don't know if there's a tie wire in those designs or not. I am only familiar with the VL for Pickering cartridges.

@malden (speak of the devil) has dissected the Shure non Jico from Jico Japanese models like EVG and they are very different from original Shure and Jico products including the magnets used.

There are places where the dimensions are published. I don't recall exactly what they are, but I have read that they are the same as the Stereohedron II, which means it's a true extended line contact. Whether these dimensions carry through all models, I would have no idea.

What makes you "pretty sure"?

 

[ghamilton]

I moved my M97xE with Vivid Line stylus from my office system onto my marcmorinized AR XB in my main system. First time I played it in this system with all my recent improvements (speakers, cables, power conditioning, etc).

I really like the sound this combination produces. I have never heard a SAS on my M97 but I have a SAS on my V15-III and M97 w/VL is in the same league. Not the same but equally enjoyable and better in some aspects.

I am considering an OEM Ortofon STY 20 for my OM cartridge and someone mentioned the LPGear VL for it (turns out they don't have a VL but they have another "improved performance" option).

So to my questions .... what is a VL exactly? Is it a hyper elliptical of some sort? Who makes them?

Could it be Jico? Nagaoka? AT?

I ask lpgear and they said it's a line contact.

 

[malden]

The OP is asking about the Shure VL.

If JICO produces Pickering styli that are identical for various markets, why wouldn't they do the same for their Shure offerings?

 

[malden]

I have Jico Shibata, LPGear VVL, and EVG (and a zillion others) for Pickering models. Comparison shows that the VVL and the Jico Shibata have the same cantilevers, with the same marks and magnets as viewed through the rear, and most likely the same tip. The thumb grips have the same micro mould marks, no matter what brand so these, at least, are all sourced from the same place. The Jico Shibata has "PC 3000" on the grip while the LPGear does not. The Jico Shibata also has a tie wire.

Note: "Jico Shibata" sold by TTN looks exactly the same as the LPGear ViVidline in all respects. I have two of these.

Also, these observations do not apply to the Shure models, which may be even more different than "unknown" Japanese brands and OEM.

But the OP specifically asked "What is a ViVidline?"

The OP has a Shure M97xE.

 

[malden]

JICO offers thousands of styli for quite a few brands of cartridges so they obviously have multiple assembly lines running. It's conceivable that they have two Shure assembly lines, one producing styli built like the originals, the other for EVG, ABC and XYZ.

Or maybe JICO farms out it's production of low-end styli to the company that makes Pickering aftermarket needles?

 

[malden]

Who makes them?

Could it be Jico? Nagaoka? AT?

What about Nagaoka? I've seen some Shure after-market styli with that name on it. Do we know anything about this company? They are in Japan, where exactly? What else do they manufacture? Or are they a re-seller like EVG?

 

[malden]

Maybe construction details? And they're not totally identical. For example, the VVL does NOT have a tie wire. This is a huge difference that leads to major differences in sound and performance. So, omitting some parts is, at least, part of the picture. Call it cost-conscious shortcutting.

Yes, that is a point that I have made numerous times whenever the subject of JICO vs EVG comes up.

I also think the genuine Jico probably gets a better polish on the diamond and maybe the better tips that conform better to tighter tolerances. There may be details that we can't observe like diamond quality, substrate material in the case of bonded tips, and even tip mass.

I totally agree

When I got the Jico from Jico D1200, a .3 x .7 elliptical, I was prepared to hear something that sounded just like the EVG .3 x .7 such as the PM4052DE, but the Jico from Jico is leagues better and, to my ear, sounds better than the ViVidline. This was a great lesson for me in that tip dimension is not the only consideration in good stylus design.

It was also an eye opener for me when I received my first JICO stylus and compared it to the original Shure as well as Pfanstiehl and EVG for my Shure M75 cartridge.

 

[bobins08]

What about Nagaoka? I've seen some Shure after-market styli with that name on it. Do we know anything about this company? They are in Japan, where exactly? What else do they manufacture? Or are they a re-seller like EVG?

Nagaoka currently makes MP 110, MP200, MP 300, and MP 500. I have heard the 500 many times and it is quite excellent. I have also heard the 110 and it my favorite entry level cartridge of the current offerings.

If VL is a Nagaoka I would not be totally surprised based on the sound characteristics and the quality of my sample of 1 on the M97.

 

[Dave999999]

Don't post here often but stylus manufacturers fascinate me. I've also got a VL - great stylus, really very little to fault for the price. I'm of the view this is made by Nagaoka. Nag is supposedly the biggest producer of aftermarket styli in Japan (possibly the world). The entire company specialises in the processing and cutting of rare minerals i.e. diamonds. I think it's telling that very few styli outside of Japan end up in branded Nag packaging - where do the rest go??? Most likely LpGear, EVG, Pfanstiehl etc in varying grades and levels of QC.

I'm also pretty sure LPGear have confirmed this is NOT made by Jico as well.

 

[Pronto]

+1

 

[tw1st]

TTN's exact same stylus, however, is called a "Jico" Shibata, so maybe it's not a contract thing. I have the TTN "Jico" Shibata, the VL and a genuine Jico Shibata. The first two are the very same and may use some of the same parts as the third.

A response I received from Seth at JICO indicated, verbatim "The styli listed as JICO brand on turntableneedles.com should be considered counterfeit, or grey market at best."

There could be truth to your VL / Shibata theory, then.