Cartridge ID needed

[boreas]

There are 2 different hues of red but both colors have both styles

Yes, I've seen "red orange", sort of a persimmon, and "orange red", a Chinese red. Both AT and both with the tapered cantilever.

John

 

[lini]

Earl: Yours seems to have a 3rd party replacement needle anyway.

John: Afaik, the 15/20 needles won't really fit on the 13/14 bodies, as the side walls of the plastic holder are a bit too high. In addition, on the 15/20 needles the plastic holders also get a bit wider on the inside towards the back, so these wouldn't fit as snugly on the 13/14 bodies anyway...

resound: Are all of your 13s Eas or are some just Es? Because it might be that the needle has been changed from the E to the Ea - and maybe the needle on op's 13Ea has already been replaced once for an original with the presumably older design. I'd deem that pretty probable, 'cause if one checks the older AT14E needle Turntableneedles also still offers, that one doesn't sport that middle bar on the visor either...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

P.S.: resound: Might also be interesting to check the diamonds of the different versions under the loupe - 'cause at least the ones with tapered cantilever should all have a nice looking, well polished, nude stone with rectangular shank (the ATN13s, that is - the ATN13EaV and ATN13EaX also have the tapered cantilever, but only bonded diamonds...). And I wonder, whether the needles with straight cantilever also have the nice diamond...

 

[resound]

They are all Ea's
I can also compare the 13 with the 14 with the 15......

Im content to know that there are differences for reasons we may never know.
Im happy to compare visually but I wont go into use comparisons.
I dont have magnification to compare tip mounting unless I create a photo collage which I dont have time for right now.
:thmbsp:


..

 

[boreas]

John: Afaik, the 15/20 needles won't really fit on the 13/14 bodies, as the side walls of the plastic holder are a bit too high. In addition, on the 15/20 needles the plastic holders also get a bit wider on the inside towards the back, so these wouldn't fit as snugly on the 13/14 bodies anyway...

Ah, thanks, Manfred! You may have saved me a pile of money! I now see you're absolutely correct. The stylus carriers are similar but not the same. Actually, the difference is readily apparent. Also, they each have different Pfanstiehl numbers: 202-XXX for the 13/14 body and 203-XXX for the 15/20.

John

 

[lini]

resound: All Eas - hmmm, there goes my theory then... But no worries regarding the stylus inspection - I'm just curious, but not in a hurry.

John: You're welcome. However, provided you have an old original 13/14 needle, you could even buy a 15/20 needle and then transplant the complete cantilever assembly into the plastic holder of the old needle.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[boreas]

John: You're welcome. However, provided you have an old original 13/14 needle, you could even buy a 15/20 needle and then transplant the complete cantilever assembly into the plastic holder of the old needle.

Okay, now you're scaring me!

John

 

[lini]

John: No worries, it's actually pretty easy - 'cause the nice thing about ATs MM needles is that most are transplantable and many even are across several different cart families, as most of these needles basically just consist of the actual cantilever assembly and a plastic holder, held together by a screw.

AT chose to call that screw "compliance adjustment screw", but that is rather misleading, 'cause actually the screw just fixes the position of the cantilever assembly in the plastic holder, while its influence on the compliance is secondary. Actual compliance is in fact determined by the flexible filament between the front and the back part of the cantilever assembly as well as the choice of damper ring and then the tension on the cantilever assembly, which can be influenced by how far it's pushed into the plastic holder, before locking its position with the screw (which I'd hence rather call "cantilever assembly lock screw"...).

So, if you have a good idea of what you're doing and provided you have at least a bit of a talent for fine mechanics, it's pretty easy to transplant cantilever assemblies and thus kind of create a whole lot of Franken-AT(/Signet/...)-needles...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[boreas]

John: No worries, it's actually pretty easy - 'cause the nice thing about ATs MM needles is that most are transplantable and many even are across several different cart families, as most of these needles basically just consist of the actual cantilever assembly and a plastic holder, held together by a screw.

AT chose to call that screw "compliance adjustment screw", but that is rather misleading, 'cause actually the screw just fixes the position of the cantilever assembly in the plastic holder, while its influence on the compliance is secondary. Actual compliance is in fact determined by the flexible filament between the front and the back part of the cantilever assembly as well as the choice of damper ring and then the tension on the cantilever assembly, which can be influenced by how far it's pushed into the plastic holder, before locking its position with the screw (which I'd hence rather call "cantilever assembly lock screw"...).

So, if you have a good idea of what you're doing and provided you have at least a bit of a talent for fine mechanics, it's pretty easy to transplant cantilever assemblies and thus kind of create a whole lot of Franken-AT(/Signet/...)-needles...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Well I'll be! I never noticed that little screw before! That is pretty simple.

I've snapped a photo of a stylus from a TC150EP (AT102P). That plastic screw is really obvious. I just never looked at it before. I think I'll play with this. It's shot anyway so I can't hurt anything.

John

 

[Doug G.]

Actually, though, the screw does adjust the compliance or, more accurately, holds the compliance set by the human adjuster when he/she pushes on the cantilever to a cartain tension.

When I first bought my AT12Sa, it worked very well on CD-4 records but then the cantilever kind of crashed onto a record (no damage).

I removed the little dab of paint, pushed in on the cantilever a bit, and tightened the screw. It's been fine since.

The only thing I can figure is the screw must have come loose. The paint wasn't touching the screw head and I don't know if it's supposed to or just hide the screw.

EDIT; Oh and BTW, another thing. Loosening the screw allows you to turn the stylus assembly so the two magnets are in the correct position and the diamond is absolutely perpendicular to the record surface. Or, I should say, a line bisecting the diamond from the tip down. John, I see the ones in your picture are way off.

Doug

 

[opossumcrush]

Yes boreas, the cartridge is marked AT13Ea.

 

[boreas]

EDIT; Oh and BTW, another thing. Loosening the screw allows you to turn the stylus assembly so the two magnets are in the correct position and the diamond is absolutely perpendicular to the record surface. Or, I should say, a line bisecting the diamond from the tip down. John, I see the ones in your picture are way off.

Doug

Yes, way off! No problem because the stylus tip is missing. I got that with an SL-B350 that I reconditioned and sent to a new home with a fresh Audio Technica 3003.

John

 

[Doug G.]

Yes, way off! No problem because the stylus tip is missing. I got that with an SL-B350 that I reconditioned and sent to a new home with a fresh Audio Technica 3003.

John

I figured that's what you meant by "shot."



Doug

 

[lini]

Doug: If the front part of the cantilever assembly just got rotated out of position by use, one usually doesn't even need to open the screw for rotating it back. Same goes for many cases of slightly sideways pointing cantilevers - usually one can also repair these without opening the screw just by rotating the damper ring individually. Of course it's a bit easier, if one does open the screw for that pupose - however, if one doesn't, one usually also doesn't have to worry about possibly altering the compliance.

Well, and my theory regarding overly low flying exemplars: In my experience this is pretty much limited to older needles, so I'd reckon it's either the damper ring shrinking over time (possibly also depending on storage conditions, I'd assume) or the flexible filament getting stretched. A "friend" of mine from two German hifi forum sites has found yet another solution for a needle like that, btw: It was an ATN20, so he was reluctant to try the screw approach on that comparatively valuable needle, as he didn't have any experience with that yet. So, instead, he made himself a tiny horse-shoe shaped shim (first from stiff paper, then from overhead presentation foil), which he then shoved over the filament between the damper ring and the plastic holder. So far that solution has been working well for him - but I'm still having some doubts, whether the shim will stay in place over time, when it's only held by pressure and friction.

John: Having fun already? Imo there also is a serious collector/vintage lover aspect to it, though - 'cause that way one can't only have fun with new creations, but also save models, for which there otherwise aren't any NOS needles anymore or excellent 3rd party replacements yet.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Balifly]

lini,

Which is the least expensive HE or Shibata replacement stylus for the AT 13 ?:scratch2:

 

[boreas]

John: Having fun already? Imo there also is a serious collector/vintage lover aspect to it, though - 'cause that way one can't only have fun with new creations, but also save models, for which there otherwise aren't any NOS needles anymore or excellent 3rd party replacements yet.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

Yeah, I sure am! That's pretty neat the way the stylus is inserted into the carrier. If I get it, the way that compliance is determined is the amount of compression in the rubber grommet. That's got to be sort of trial and error, I suspect.

John

 

[Doug G.]

Yeah, I sure am! That's pretty neat the way the stylus is inserted into the carrier. If I get it, the way that compliance is determined is the amount of compression in the rubber grommet. That's got to be sort of trial and error, I suspect.

John

In the factory, they use the inscrutable automatic compliance measuring and adjusting fixture!

Ah so.



Doug

 

[davidguilbault]

Huh?

 

[lini]

Earl: I'm not very well informed about 3rd party replacements, as I usually avouid these, unless NOS originals can't be found anymore for half-decent prices. But that isn't the case yet for the ATN14 (nude (square shank) Shibata on tapered alu cantilever), so I'd suggest to get that one. Should be ~ 100 bucks.

John: Yup, it's a bit of trial and error, but one gets a feeling for the necessary pressure over time. And, of course, if one knows the official static compliance, it's also possible to measure the displacement under load for checking the result...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[Balifly]

Earl: I'm not very well informed about 3rd party replacements, as I usually avouid these, unless NOS originals can't be found anymore for half-decent prices. But that isn't the case yet for the ATN14 (nude (square shank) Shibata on tapered alu cantilever), so I'd suggest to get that one. Should be ~ 100 bucks.


Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

lini,

Thanks for the suggestion.
I know what to look for now.:thmbsp: