Emilar 175 Driver Specifications

[gdmoore28]

Despite my protestations to the contrary, I'm already running a few new speaker build projects through my mind. My recent Altec project was really fun and very instructive, and gave me numerous ideas for at least three other component configurations I'd like to consider.

I've already picked up a couple more Altec 416 woofers - both of them "C" versions. All three ideas that I have in my head (a dangerously cluttered, confused place ) will likely require midrange drivers with FR specs very similar to those of my Altec 802Ds. Because everything I build has to proceed on shoestring budgets, I've been considering what other used drivers might be able to provide features similar or superior to the 802Ds.

From the minimal information I've managed to find so far, the Emilar 175-series drivers seem to fit the bill. These drivers are still available for reasonable costs, have a good reputation, and enjoy the benefit of available replacement diaphragms.

Question: What is the differences between the various available versions of the 175 series? So far, I've found EA-175, EC-175, and EK-175. Seems they all have a stated useable FR of 500-15kHz, but I can't find what differentiates one version from the other. Pictures seem to indicate that the "EA" version has a deeper body? And I "think" that they all use the same diaphragm?

Any further technical info and personal experience with the Emilar 175 series drivers would be much appreciated.

GeeDeeEmm

Emilar EA-175

Emilar EC-175

Emilar EK-175

 

[setup1]

To my ears the EA175 sounds smoother because of the Alnico. But the EC175 is by no means unrefined, I only noticed the difference when I finally got my hands on a pair of EA175s and compared both models head to head. I have no experience with the later EK model.

JE

 

[merdy]

From my drug and alcohol pickled memory,this was told to Me by a German friend whose dad worked at bms
Jonas renkus started the company sometime in 79/80 he had previously worked with John hillard at altec,he also worked with harro Heinz,where they started renkus hienz speakers
A lot of patents and designs were so called developed at rh and some filtered to emilar and were later sued
His son algis renkus was the guy running the company ,while his dad had his foot in both companies,a lot of emilar designs shared influence from altec then later rh ,it was their diaphragms that made them popular as they had better power handling and could be retrofitted with altec drivers,the ea or ealnico had similar topology to the altec 802
The ceramic was created when the wars in Africa stopped shipping alnico magnets
Many companies had to do the same thing,
The ek model was when emilar was nearing bankruptcy and was out sourced
Maybe some experts will chime in
Sound wise I love the ea series it's sort of altec sounding with some jbl spices
It also sounds good on most altec horns,the ec works better on newer cd horns,never seen or tried the ek version
Hope this helps

 

[bowtie427ss]

Renkus sold Emilar at one point, then ended up getting it back. The details are long gone from my mind.

There was also the Renkus Corporation out of Anaheim. I have a driver in blue krinkle that is essentially an EC-175 bearing the Renkus Corporation badge.



The EK and ECK drivers are from Emilar's 2nd time around and those drivers' production continued for a time after Plus One Engineering bought Emilar and their tooling under their name. They still use the basic design for their siren drivers.

Those that retain their original diaphragms may have diaphragms made with Renkus' new at the time tri-laminate process.

It's been some time since i have communicated with Robert Grunberg. He is a wealth of Renkus/Emilar information. Here's some reading:

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hug&n=61077&highlight=emilar+radian&r=&session=

 

[merdy]

Thanks bowtie ,is your moniker named after the emilar horn? I know what the 427 is.
This helps clear some memories,especially with mr grunberg and plus one engineering
Yes the renkus Corp made some amazing stuff as well,do you remember the big 6 inch compression driver and horn ,I looked around for years trying to find some but no luck mostly with blown diaphragms,did they really play from 100hz
What's amazing is these guys did all this with no computer and cad software,all us music lovers can't thank them enough for the business risk and competition they went through

 

[merdy]

Geedeemmm ,sorry got sidetracked ,I have tried many ea175 with lots of horns so if you plan on using 511,811,32,and emilar horns you can't go wrong and they will blend well with your 416 drivers,for pro applications the ec was fine as it was lighter and prone to abuse,sound wise maybe the alnico version is a bit more polite with home use and lower power amps,I also plan on building a altec bottom with 416a and some emilar ea175 or altec 808 drivers on an old sierra brooks horn, so it's in my little head too.

 

[setup1]

...emilar ea175 or altec 808 drivers on an old sierra brooks...

Just as an aside, here's a picture of Victor Sierra (right) at the Hifi Show in Manila in 2016. I hope @gdmoore28 does not mind the digression.

 

[gdmoore28]

Digress all you'd like! I enjoy the conversation.

GeeDeeEmm

 

[twiiii]

If you will go to the Lansing Heritage site there is a detailed history of Emilar and it relationship with Altec and Renkus-Heinz. Personally I preferred the smoother highs of the 175 versus the 808 and 908 drivers. They would also handle as much power. The 802 and 902 may have had better response to 20,000 but with only a power rating of 8 to 10 RMS pink noise were pretty much limited to very small rooms and consumer homes. The Emilar fit right in between the 808 802 with the 808 power capability and with excellent highs past 15,000 Hz where the 808 started rolling off around or before 10,000 Hz. The Emilar 800 hz horn I much preferred because it allowed you to sit 40 degrees off axis from the right speaker almost in front of the left speaker and still enjoy a fairly well balanced stereo presentation and vice versa. The 500HZ was better, too because it didn't ring like the 511 Altec horn. I don't remember efficiency differences, but they were all with in a db or 2 of each other. The Emilar diaphragms were easier to change and get aligned properly, too.

We had a church with a thrust stage that also performed Christmas pagents, etc with 4 speakers systems in front and above the stage. They kept destroying diaphragms so we changed to Renkus Heinz drivers with a throat adapter using 311 horns. They did want to pay for MR 902 HF drivers to supplement the orginial 288 drivers, changed to 291 diaphragms so the Renkus Heinz became the final solution.

 

[Gooshe]

Since it' almost been almost 3 years, this would not be considered a hi-jacking if this thread. Have a pair of these speakers which there seems to be no information online. Wonder if they were pro or car audio? Any responses would be greatly appreciated.
Emilar EL-15B Made in Anaheim, CA

 

[bowtie427ss]

Since it' almost been almost 3 years, this would not be considered a hi-jacking if this thread. Have a pair of these speakers which there seems to be no information online. Wonder if they were pro or car audio? Any responses would be greatly appreciated.
Emilar EL-15B Made in Anaheim, CA

Let's see pics, front and rear.

My WAG is that it's the lead or midbass version of the EW-15B woofer.

Many pages of the Emilar website from the time of Plus One Engineering''s purchase of them are available in the wayback machine(internet archive.org). Beware, it takes time to sift thru.

 

[Gooshe]

Sorry for the delay in getting back, but here are a couple of pictures.

 

[bowtie427ss]

OK, those are from the 2nd incarnation of the Emilar Corp., after Renkus bought it back, foreclosed, or thru whatever means he had gain ownership again.

Those were very likely continued in production by Plus One Engineering for at least a short time. It will take time to sift thru the many captures. But, i would be surprised if you couldn't eventually find info on that particular driver.

 

[Gooshe]

Thank you for the provided information.
In your opinion, would you say they are about the same quality as the Altec 416's?

I have a pair of Onkens which utilizes the 416 drivers, was wondering if I could buy them as backup or a similar project in the future.
I also have a pair of the 175 Emilar driver/horns and crossovers that match them.
Appreciate your feedback.
Cheers

 

[bowtie427ss]

Quality?

Certainly, they would have been built to the same or similar standards as their competitors, and in the relationship between Altec and Emilar, to the standards of their alumni as well.

I suspect that in asking about similar quality, you might have actually been wondering about similar characteristics.

IMO, the Emilar is quite likely engineered and voiced more toward vocal sound reinforcement and instrument amplification. It will likely have a fairly stiff(heavily damped) suspension, and perform very well in the mid-bass and low midrange region. It's difficult to tell from the pics if the cone is pressed, or open molded. Open molded cones tend to excel at low bass response.

The 416 on the other hand, was designed and engineered primarily as a woofer for extended low frequency, even though it uses a light, strong, pressed cone that enjoys good upper extension. While it saw other applications, including small format theater reproduction, the primary intent was as a woofer with extended low frequency response.

Sadly, the Emilars were not made in large numbers. As a result there is very little existing published data or experience. If you get them, please share all that you can about them.

 

[sean sweeney]

I just got a pair of EAC175 8A'S and they were fitted with symbiotic style diaphragms for stage use, I imagine, as they were attached to community horns.
I wanted to put them in a pair of nice altec model 15s I acquired, with no horn drivers. However, the searching I did days before, scored me some Altec 808-8b's with original kits, which makes them almost dead ringers for the "g"s that came in the 15's.
However again, I couldn't find the diaphragms anymore, anywhere, so I did the closest thing I could, which was to order the diaphragms that Radian still makes, with the same measurements, aside from the ring!
They were the ones that took over the production of the Emilar horns diaphragms, for some years, I imagine until the demand waned. When I got them I puzzled over how to get them nearly .5 inches narrower, but in the end, I tool the blown diaphragms out, and carefully removed the diaphragms from the Radians. This was done with a box cutter, an exacto knife, a razor blade and a very pointy soldering iron to melt thin layers of glue on the outside of the housing. The nice thing about the emilars is, the diaphragms sits pretty loosely in its seat inside, so you can just put the cap back on, once you glue the Radians into the emilar housing, and adjust to get the full sound you're looking for, as friction/pressure from the cap is what really keeps them in their place. So now I'll compare these with the Altecs and see which I like better. Pretty sure the new titanium diaphragms will win out, but who knows!

 

[elitopus]

Emilar and Renkus HF drivers all had the Mylar surround diaphragms. There was no all aluminum version like Altec had.

I was surprised to find out that Emilar HF drivers and Gauss woofers came factory in some Community speakers. Got some last year that had that setup.

I’m curious what kind of butchery you did with the exacto knife

Correct that Radian made diaphragms for Emilar 175 drivers for a while. It was the Radian 1175. Unfortunately not available anymore.

 

[sean sweeney]

They came out in one piece. I took a long and careful approach. Luckily the Radian diaphragms were not glued effectively. The horns sound quite nice in the altecs. I used parts from a huge collection of carburetor gaskets I found a while back. There were so many gaskets, I found a few that had the proper thickness and diameter. Centered the diaphragms and glued/clamped. No perforated bits, no wrinkled edges. Both horns put out the same levels of mids and highs. Beings no source for diaphragms exists currently, and i already had the drivers, it seems to have worked well. The Radian diaphragms were relatively inexpensive. Going to compare with the altecs and see if I can get a decent response using pink noise. I imagine I'll make the mods to the 808s to make them "G"s. An extra set of hf horns will get used soon. They'll at least make some nice PA stock with a bulb in series.