What can tubes power?

tromba

tromba

Super Member
Last weekend I heard a VAC tube power amp with top of the line Focal Speakers (not sure models, but I think the VAC was around $44k and the speakers just under $200K) I don't suppose it's necessary to say, but they sounded great.

I've never had tubes and could never afford anything like those I heard. I don't really know much of anything about tubes, but just from reading in this forum and elsewhere it seems to me the amps are somewhat high maintence compared to solid state (bias, etc). I currently have Vandersteen 3A speakers as my mains, but also have AR9s. My current amp is an Aragon 8008 (200 wpc). I have heard so many good things about tubes that I've always wondered....

How can I tell what tube amp would run them? It almost seems you have to hook it up and see. For example, a Citation II is 60 wpc and very highly valued from what I've read. Would going from the Aragon's power down to the Citation be a step backward in performance (maybe that's not the right word)? I listen mostly to classical and jazz and at a volume so that the loud parts of classical are indeed loud. My room isn't that big (about 11x20) and there are so many factors involved!!

How about the Dynaco stuff (can't remember model numbers -- I often seen a pair of Dynaco monoblocks, and I think a 70w integrated)? Enough power there?

And finally, are there current new tube amps around the power of the Citation that are affordable? (I know that's very subjective, but lets say under 2K)? Or is the Citation still one of the top of the line in this price range?
 
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Becareful....

Once you've had tubes, there's no going back !

They provide a sound that can not be compared to any other source of audio enjoyment. Due to the fact that tubes are produced so that in one generation, a particular tube has different variations which allows a person to buy a headphone tube preamp and switch out tubes until they obtain their perfect sound. This is called rolling tubes....

Tubes do more with the recreation of frequencies than any other mode of technology. Once you start enjoying the results of what you have done with your own two hands you'll end up with an entire rack of tube equipment !! There has been decades of tube equipment sold overtime with so much to choose from. So, it's not what is provided...it's what you choose to create for yourself !
 
Sounds like you have high standards and don't mind dropping some cash on audio, but I don't think you need a ton of power, or an expensive amp to get the feel for what tubes are about. ;)

Can't say that I have a lot of experience, but I recently restored a Magnavox 9300 and if I knew how great that sounded, I would have stopped my search there and been satisfied.

My single ended KT88, in triode mode, has about 4, 5 or 8 watts per channel. I don't really know for sure if it's 4 or 8 and don't care cause they power my 88dB Advents louder than I would ever want to listen.
Maybe if you want to rock a house party or fill a theater you'd need 70 watts or so, but for jazz in any size room, it's just not necessary. That's just my experience.
 
My 6.5 WPC tube amp is more than enough for me. I like tubes and don't know that I can ever own SS gear again.
 
The Vandersteen model 3's are a great speaker but quite low in sensitivity. They do have an easy impedance curve with first order crossovers, which helps when driving them with a tube amp. I would not recommend a tube amp with less than say 60 watts/channel with these speakers. A 100 watt/channel amp would be better, but those get quite a bit more pricey. Really hard to find a new production commercially manufactured 60 watt/channel tube amp in your price range. Best bet in new production amps would probably be a tubes4hifi kit, such as ST120 or the M125 monoblocks. In vintage, a pair of Dynaco Mk III's would offer just barely enough power.
 
Set up a second system. You really want more efficient speakers, look at the Klipsch Heritage line. I picked up a set of Heresy's and recapped the crossovers, have less than 350.00 in them. I'm running them with a set of 40 WPC Mac monoblocks and they get pretty loud.
I bet that Citation with a set of Klipsch Cornwalls would rattle your windows. A good tube system paired with the right speakers (I prefer horns) will blow you away.
Look at my sig, I find myself listening to the Mac system most often.

BillWojo
 
Pio1980 said:
There's a rebuilt Citation II in Bartertown in your price range.
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That's what has prompted my questions..... I've not seen one in driving distance like this one is. Maybe I'll be "lucky" and some one else will buy it and put me out of my misery
mbskeam said:
beware.....

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And that is a fear! I used to be the guy who's wife let him rebuilt a motorcycle engine in the living room. Don't think I'm that guy anymore. I turn on the Aragon and don't have to think of anything else. I fear tube rolling and all that kind of stuff taking away from just turning the stuff on and listening!!
 
Have you ever thought at bi-amping your speakers? Keep your SS amp for the low and add a tube amp for the high.
Treat yourself with a nice rebuild MCIntosh MC240, can't go wrong (or MC275 but $$$). Or a nice pair of mono rebuild HF-60.

As other said, tube power can't be compared to SS. It can rock my place with a simple 12W tube amp and it is very loud.
Be careful, tube sound is addictive :p
 
Brice said:
Have you ever thought at bi-amping your speakers? Keep your SS amp for the low and add a tube amp for the high.
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Actually that just crossed my mind. The owner's manual has several diagrams of biamping.
Brice said:
As other said, tube power can't be compared to SS. It can rock my place with a simple 12W tube amp and it is very loud.
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That seems to follow things I've read here. I guess since I've always been solid state, I've never had a power amp with as little as 60wpc and can't imagine that giving enough juice to the speakers.
Brice said:
Be careful, tube sound is addictive :p
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I've heard that also. Do I want to go down that path??? In fear and trembling?
 
Am I wrong about the high maintenance of tubes? With my SS I just turn it on and that's it. What knowledge is required for tubes? For example, setting the bias -- don't know what that means and don't need to know now, just how often does it need to be done. How often do tubes need to be replaced.

(From what I've read sometimes if you purchase an amp without tubes it will cost that much again to get the tubes.)

What other attention does this mistress need?
 
kward said:
The Vandersteen model 3's are a great speaker but quite low in sensitivity.
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Say what? They are spec'ed at 88dB. That's on the high side of average for the typical modern speaker. And quite driveable by a tube amp. Not some puny 2 wpc amp, but there are a lot of tube amps which produce 60, 75, or 100 wpc. And if one isn't trying to obtain concert levels, the 3A could play pretty loud with a common 35-40 wpc amp.

Driving an 88db speaker with 20 wpc is essentially the same as driving a 98db speaker with 2 wpc.

Someone has been selling a restored Harman Kardon Citation II on Barter Town. That makes a good 60 wpc. Would be a great match with your Vandys.
 
High maintenance of tube gear depends on the gear. See many, many Magnavox and Zenith amps, 50 or 60 years old with original tubes that test near new. See a weak rectifier now and then. New capacitors and general rebuild and it might be good for another 50 years.
 
Some amps are self bias like Mcintosh, just plug the new tube and enjoy.
Some amps have panel indicators for the biasing purpose. It's easy and takes 2 minutes.
Some amps have voltage points accessible on the chassis. It's easy and takes 5 minutes but you need a voltmeter.
Some amps have nothing and need to be open. Not fun, stay away.

In any case, if you don't roll your power tubes often, you do it at install the new tubes set the bias and you're done.
Then check now and then to check of the tubes age correctly. else you readjust.

It's not a big deal. And tubes last if used properly years or decades. Some amps push tubes hard by design, then of course tube failure happens earlier.

The good news is new tubes are not really expensive these days.
The second good news is you have this board to ask for advice.

Before you want to pull the trigger on an tube amp, just ask what people think. We will tell you if you are buying a lemon :rolleyes:
 
The Vandersteen 3A's are driven easily by 60 tube watts in anything but an extremely large room. I did it for several years with 3A Sigs. In fact I drove them to well over 90db with a 35 wpc EL-84 based Music Reference RM-10.
 
Brice said:
Before you want to pull the trigger on an tube amp, just ask what people think. We will tell you if you are buying a lemon
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thanks for the reply (and to all the previous replies also).

Well my eye is on the Citation II in BT. Maybe someone will put me out of my misery and buy it before I can figure things out. From all I've heard it doesn't get much better for the price.
 
I love vacuum tubes. My first vacuum tube stereo was a 1966 zenith stereophonic. It has 3 tubes. 2 normal & one mini. It sounds better than anything you can buy in the store. (That's just my opinion lol) & everything is original, including the speakers (it's so low powered that I've yet to find some that it can handle). But it gets really loud with the original speakers. I do I need to do a recap job on it tho.
 
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