Why I shouldn't get an automatic?

I

I3eyond

New Member
Having started a collection...well, 40 records so far, so not much of a collection, yet....I really enjoy the sound of vinyl.

Likewise, I read all over the 'Net about manual vs. automatic, direct vs. belt drive, etc.

Things to keep in mind:

-This will be my first non-integrated, standalone turntable
-Being my first turntable, I never plan on doing any cartridge upgrades, or any upgrading whatsoever for that matter
-I really like the convenience of selecting 33/45, size, and hitting a button, and having auto-return

Down the road, may I get a manual TT? Sure. However, unless you can talk me out of it otherwise, an automatic is the path I think I'm going; I believe for a first TT, it's the best route.

Note:

Accompanying gear will be (tentatively):

B&W 686
Marantz PM6005 -or- Emotiva USP-1 Pre & UPA-200

Any input greatly appreciated! :thmbsp:

Thanks. :)

-I3
 
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Good questions. But I have some for you...

Practically all modern turntables are manual only, so that probably means you will search out an older turntable from back when vinyl was in its prime. The good thing is that at that time (let's say the 70s to mid 80s as at least a median age), they mostly were well built and with a bit of TLC could still work very well.

A large percentage of the decent tables you will or should consider will be semi automatic in that they will return the arm to the rest and shut off at the end of the side. Fully automatic would also of course move the arm over the record and lower it at the touch of a button. This is a nice feature but since you still must get up to put the record on the platter anyway, semi auto is a reasonable compromise. I don't know the stats but I would not be surprised if the numbers are about 75% in the semi auto category.

A lot of Dual tables were sold in that period and they usually are almost the same as I describe though don't return the arm to the rest but at least lift an shut off at the end of the side which is nearly as convenient.

Full automatics are less common and are more complex so there is more to go wrong. They can be great though if working well.
 
It sounds like a linear tracker might be a good choice for you. Put the record on the platter, hit play, and it'll do it's thing. They're mostly P mount, so no aligning a cartridge or doing tonearm set up. Technics made some good linear trackers.
 
Along the same lines as what has already been posted, fully automatic tables are few and far between in terms of newer models, and the mechanics involved in the older ones are subject to failure. My main table is fully manual belt drive Linn LP12, but I also have a Dual CS5000 that is semi-auto in that it will lift the arm and stop the table at the end of the lp, but it does not auto-cue. Perhaps semi-auto is the way to go for you.
 
"Why I shouldn't get an automatic?"

Why not, really?
If you like it that way, then go automatic.
Auto return is very nice feature. I never had TT with autoreturn so I had to train myself not to nap while listen to records :(
 
Excellent automatic turntables that I had opotunity to listen to are
-Technics SL 1300MkII
-Technics SL 1400MkII
-Sony PS X50
-Sony PS X60

These are all excellent turntables, built sturdy and reliable, with automatics that are not prone to malfunction
 
My collection of Automatic turntables

1) Revox B795
2) Technics SL1600mkII (waiting for conversion to 240V)
3) JVC QL-Y5F
4) Toshiba / Aurex SR-Q630

All working since new, all over 30 years old, no reliability problems with any of them... :thmbsp:

The top of the line consumer turntables from all major brands in the late 70's and early 80's were automatic...

This included Dual, Thorens, Revox, Sony, Technics, Yamaha, JVC, Denon, (all the japanese really!), Goldmund, and many many more.

There were of course professional/broadcast and specialist audiophile turntables which were manual....

But when you consider something like a top of the line Sony, JVC or Denon Automatic, you are already playing at a very high level of performance - equivalent to at least current $1500 turntables or better.

My Revox when new in 1986 retailed for AU$2500 (with V15VMR) - today in Australia that money gets you a totally manual Acoustic Signature table with Garrott P77i or a Rega RP8 with Rega Exact MM....

I have a feeling that the Revox with V15VMR more than holds its own against the current $2500 contenders! (AU$ pricing tends to be double the US$ pricing on average.... for no logical reason!)

There are plenty of these fantastic early to mid 80's automatics out there, and most of them are very reliable if they have been looked after.

bye for now

David
 
You can also add:

Technics SL-1600 MK2

Technics SL-5300

Technics SL-3300

Technics SL-Q3

Technics SL-D3

Sony PS-X55

Sony PS-X600 Biotracer

And many other

Thanks
 
I have 1 full auto and another 2 on the way. JVC, Denon, Dual. All old ones.
The auto start has the advantage of working in the half dark or when you might be...um... 'tired'.
 
You absolutely should not buy an automatic turntable. Here's why:

1.) Though we put a man on the moon in 1969, the technology never has been, nor ever will be, in place to automatically raise and lower a tonearm without compromising sound quality. All that extraneous gadgetry puts miles between you and the music. You might as well listen to 128kbps MP3.

2.) No modern audiophile tables are currently made with automatic features. This certainly has less to do with the economies of a shrunken market, and is definitely all about point #1. Fact: Any given manual table is better than any given automatic table.

3.) They're all going to laugh at you.

4.) Automatic turntables are a sign of laziness and moral weakness. Look at ol' Bob over there. He's a Korean War vet, and gets up on two artificial knees and walks uphill in the snow both ways to raise and lower the tonearm on his manual table for each side of the record. DO YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN BOB, PUNK?

5.) I don't want to pay more for my next full-auto, direct drive, Japanese turntable. They've got a big enough following as it is.
 
Winters... Me and my 32-year old Philips AF-829 that has performed flawlessly since I got it, disagree with all your reasons except 4). I can say that, yes, I am a moral reprobate beyond all hope of redemption.
 
I have these fully automatic TTs:

Pioneer PL-630
Technics SL-1300

Very competent tables. I enjoy the repeat function as well. Auto return is a wonderful feature.

S.J.
 
Bujodrag said:
Excellent automatic turntables that I had opotunity to listen to are
-Technics SL 1300MkII
-Technics SL 1400MkII
-Sony PS X50
-Sony PS X60

These are all excellent turntables, built sturdy and reliable, with automatics that are not prone to malfunction
Click to expand...

Good list.

I have a full auto and a full manual.

I can speak for the SL-1600 MK II - by the use of light sensing, the automatic return drive system is out of the way and is not mechanically engaged when the record is playing so it plays like a manual so to speak. The arm is the same one as the SL-1200 MK II. Many parts and upgrades are available through KABUSA. And it sounds good too! :thmbsp:
 
winters860 said:
You absolutely should not buy an automatic turntable. Here's why:

1.) Though we put a man on the moon in 1969, the technology never has been, nor ever will be, in place to automatically raise and lower a tonearm without compromising sound quality. All that extraneous gadgetry puts miles between you and the music. You might as well listen to 128kbps MP3.

2.) No modern audiophile tables are currently made with automatic features. This certainly has less to do with the economies of a shrunken market, and is definitely all about point #1. Fact: Any given manual table is better than any given automatic table.

3.) They're all going to laugh at you.

4.) Automatic turntables are a sign of laziness and moral weakness. Look at ol' Bob over there. He's a Korean War vet, and gets up on two artificial knees and walks uphill in the snow both ways to raise and lower the tonearm on his manual table for each side of the record. DO YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN BOB, PUNK?

5.) I don't want to pay more for my next full-auto, direct drive, Japanese turntable. They've got a big enough following as it is.
Click to expand...

I strongly disagree and would love to have you do a double blind test between an automatic turntable and a manual turntable with the same cartridge and other elements. This post is an example of the need to know your audience. Read the original poster's entry.

I have three automatic Technics. Two SL-1650s with stacker spindles, and an SL 5350, also with stacker spindles. Look at Ebay and see how much more used automatic Technics go for compared to manuals. The stacker spindles alone go for $50 to over $75. I would compare my Technics SL-1650 with Shure V15V-MR against any other moving magnet turntable set up and challenge you to say why yours is better than mine. I read others here posting about their expensive and in my opinion dubious mods they've done to their turntables to supposedly make significant improvements to the sound and wonder if they wouldn't be much better off spending their money on better quality records.

My advise is to visit Ebay and get a quality Technics automatic turntable that has been serviced from a seller that has high positive feedback earned by selling turntables. Once you get it, put on a record press the start button and enjoy your record.
 
There are devices, like the Q-Up, that will turn most manual tables into an auto-lift table.

This can sometimes be a great option.
 
jeffpaletz said:
I strongly disagree and would love to have you do a double blind test between an automatic turntable and a manual turntable with the same cartridge and other elements. This post is an example of the need to know your audience. Read the original poster's entry.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

And to all others, thank you as well.

There are two local record shops in town, one that organizes everything and is great, the other may as well be a shack.

The shack, however, stocks vintage TTs.

From a prior post, I've even seen something similar if not the same to the Technics SL 1300MkII.

Based on all the TTs I've seen there, though, they would definitely need some TLC.

Buying an older TT, how much can one expect, in general or on average, to get it up and running in prime condition?

Best,
I3
 
Bujodrag said:
Excellent automatic turntables that I had opotunity to listen to are
-Technics SL 1300MkII
-Technics SL 1400MkII
-Sony PS X50
-Sony PS X60

These are all excellent turntables, built sturdy and reliable, with automatics that are not prone to malfunction
Click to expand...

I would caution against the SL 1300MKII. While it is a great table (I own one). They are prone to a lift problem. There are several threads on here, just search for "SL1300 lift problem".

In a nutshell, there's a small plastic piece that breaks and can't be purchased anywhere. There is a switch by the tonearm to convert the table to full manual. That's what I've had to do until I can fabricate a part for it.

If the OP can find one that the part has been replaced on I would say go for it! They're a great table and probably because of the lift issue they're not expensive.
 
jeffpaletz said:
I strongly disagree and would love to have you do a double blind test between an automatic turntable and a manual turntable with the same cartridge and other elements. This post is an example of the need to know your audience. Read the original poster's entry.
Click to expand...

I am quite certain that the post you're responding to was tongue-in-cheek, and I got a good laugh out of it. Pretty sure that winters860 likes automatic tables as much as you and I do.
 
Unless you are handy with turntables I would recommend getting one that is working. The Technics automatics are very reliable and need little servicing other than putting a few drops of oil into the spindle area every thousand hours of use or so. The only problem I've had with my SL-1650s is the need to refill the lift mechanism with cuing fluid. I would not recommend a non-technical person attempt that.

The beauty of a direct drive turntable is that the drive system only has one moving part, the turntable. Compared to rim drive that has wheels to fail or go bad or a belt drive, which can have belts that stretch with age or break, direct drives are more reliable and trouble free. They either work great of they don't. Also, they are the most quietest of the three types of drive systems.

Note t hat you can find the owners and service manuals on line at vinyl engine for most turntables. They also have a database of cartridge specs. Good luck and enjoy your search for the right turntable for you.
 
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