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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

contenders?

These made their way into my trunk on Friday afternoon - look like the ideal thing for an ewave! Cerwin Vega boxes with woofers only were donated to the Salvation Army thrift. Yes, someone stripped the mids, tweeters, and terminal cups, and left ME to pick up the woofers and cabinets for $8! Cabinets are 1.8 cu-ft, with 1 inch thick walls, and they still have all their corners! Woofers are now refoamed and the specs are pretty good (~91.5 db/w/m, Qts~.4 Vas~230L, fs~25Hz), but I need to make the crossover after returning from vacation in 3 weeks. (I'll have to borrow the CD and WG from my LE14-ewaves until I buy a 2nd set.)
 

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Ordered my 4 10" Dayton classics, inducts and caps today.

So begins the my new Barzilay ewave project, I'll miss my EPI woofer and JBL l-26 cabs.... (maybe not!)

I think my original estimate was wrong on cabinet volume, I think its closer to 4.5 cu ft.

Playing around with winisd, which I'm pretty new with, I come up with a port size of about 4" x 8".

Will post accurate measurements soon, going to start on my new front and back plates for the cabs today. Need to start planning some bracing also.
 
Cabs like Barzilays with removable baffles BEG for experimentation. Think about means to do interchangeable ports.

Plenty of fun ahead.... :thmbsp:
 
So my E-Waves have come and gone, and, I want them back...:tears:

I'm ready to start building my second pair but I would like to bring the overall
sensitivity(efficiency?) up as close to 99 or 100db as I can get. What woofer would you (Zilch or anyone else who cares to comment) recommend?

I would like to keep my load as easy to drive as possible so I can use my 4.5 watt SE 6BQ5 amp.
 
Vaughn said:
I should also comment that I would like to keep my cabinet volume below 10 cubic feet!:D
Click to expand...
Most of what we've built have used lower efficiency woofers to get good bass response in smaller cabinets. Kick up the efficiency and you've gotta trade something for that.

For HT, it's less of an issue; with a sub in the system, you don't need extended bass from the mains, and high efficiency in small boxes gets you where you need to go. I consider this a most rational approach.... :yes:
 
OK, now that I have your ear, what would be a high efficiency woofer that would be good to make an E-Wave satellite to be used with sub?

Something like the Eminence 12LTA?
 
Vaughn said:
OK, now that I have your ear, what would be a high efficiency woofer that would be good to make an E-Wave satellite to be used with sub?

Something like the Eminence 12LTA?
Click to expand...
Others will have to advise, as I'm just not familiar with high-efficiency woofers....
 
Vaughn said:
OK, now that I have your ear, what would be a high efficiency woofer that would be good to make an E-Wave satellite to be used with sub?

Something like the Eminence 12LTA?
Click to expand...

JBL D130 is pretty sensitive if you can find and afford them. More of a big midwoofer, actually. WinISD shows a 2 cu ft ported box but the output drops like a stone below 80 hz. Add a powered sub and enjoy your SE tube amp from 100 hz up.

I've got a pair of JBL Barons here. D130 and 075 with N2400 crossovers in ported C38 cabs. Not really fond of this particular driver matchup. The driver leads are easily accessed on the back of teh crossover. I should drop a waveguide on the top of the cabinet and see what happens. maybe tomorrow.
 
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Those JBL's might be in range, of course I would have to factor in the cost of a powered sub!

Anybody have any idea what the overall efficiency of a combo like the JBL 2226(j,h?) and the Selenium D220ti would be? I have owned Altec Valencias and actually quite liked their bass. Not really deep but I loved the sound of those 15" cones.
 
Woofer loading with a ZNFB SE amp

If you're using an amp with a significant Zout the calculation of cabinet/woofer interaction changes somewhat. There's a way - documented in Audio Express some time ago - for calculating effective driver parameters taking amp Z into account. I read it at the time and didn't understand it well.
The upshot is that you don't have full electrical damping of the back EMF from the woofer. You can change the cabinet loading to compensate for this.
 
Bauhausler said:
JBL D130 is pretty sensitive if you can find and afford them. More of a big midwoofer, actually. WinISD shows a 2 cu ft ported box but the output drops like a stone below 80 hz. Add a powered sub and enjoy your SE tube amp from 100 hz up.

I've got a pair of JBL Barons here. D130 and 075 with N2400 crossovers in ported C38 cabs. Not really fond of this particular driver matchup. The driver leads are easily accessed on the back of teh crossover. I should drop a waveguide on the top of the cabinet and see what happens. maybe tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I've got a pair of 50's diy systems my dad built consisting of D-123, 075 with late design N-2400 clones in 5cuft cabinets. I'm about to do the same thing, add the e-wave 220ti with the PH612 guides using the same N-2400 cross over.
I have the hi effiency version of the E-wave crossover to try too.

Keep us posted on how that works Bauhausler and I'll do the same.
 
geiman said:
I've got a pair of 50's diy systems my dad built consisting of D-123, 075 with late design N-2400 clones in 5cuft cabinets. I'm about to do the same thing, add the e-wave 220ti with the PH612 guides using the same N-2400 cross over.
I have the hi effiency version of the E-wave crossover to try too.

Keep us posted on how that works Bauhausler and I'll do the same.
Click to expand...

That is a good thing to do to those as the midrange really suffered with the 123 and 075....big dips in the mids. I would be interested in your results with the 2400 but I suspect that without the CD comp of the eWave crossover, the highs will be down somewhat.
 
geiman said:
I've got a pair of 50's diy systems my dad built consisting of D-123, 075 with late design N-2400 clones in 5cuft cabinets. I'm about to do the same thing, add the e-wave 220ti with the PH612 guides using the same N-2400 cross over.
I have the hi effiency version of the E-wave crossover to try too.

Keep us posted on how that works Bauhausler and I'll do the same.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that the D220Ti/PH612 requires the HF lift compensation provided by R1/R2/C3 in order to approach being flat. The N2400 crissover lacks this feature. Without it the response of teh HF will fall at several db/oct above about 3K.

***
EDIT
***
Beat me by a minute, Dennis.

5 cu ft cabs... Hmmm... I have a pair of Valencias here (not for much longer I hope) that are pretty close to that. WinISD predicts -3db at 60 hz for that cab with a D130. I can't find a box that the program predicts actual low bass out of for the D130. I put Dayton Classic 15" in these val cabs as an experiment. They're not very sensitive but there's serious output down to 30 hz. Program sez -3db at 28 hz or something.
 
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Zilch said:
97 dB, it says:

http://www.jblpro.com/components/vgc.htm#2226HJ

A vintage one we've been wanting to try is D123.

All of mine are rear mount variant, though, so I haven't been able to just pop one in a box here to try.

Altec 414s, presumably, as well.... :dunno:
Click to expand...

Maybe I'm totally off but if I can get 97db efficiency from a 2226/220ti combo with usable response down to about 40hz in a cabinet of reasonable volume I would be happy. I don't listen at loud levels, I just like it to sound effortless at normal levels:yes: Anyway, it seems like that would be efficient enough for a 4-5 watt amp in my small living room. The amp, btw, is an old console amp rebuilt into an RH84. Not sure what the zout is:scratch2:
 
Vaughn said:
Maybe I'm totally off but if I can get 97db efficiency from a 2226/220ti combo with usable response down to about 40hz in a cabinet of reasonable volume I would be happy. I don't listen at loud levels, I just like it to sound effortless at normal levels:yes: Anyway, it seems like that would be efficient enough for a 4-5 watt amp in my small living room. The amp, btw, is an old console amp rebuilt into an RH84. Not sure what the zout is:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Power levels should be moderate at normal listening levels. I'm using Altec 406Z 10" woofers (SPL is probably about the same as 416) and passive radiators in Bolero cabinets with D220Ti/PH612. The woofer sensitivity is high enough that I'm using no Lpad attenuation (HF turned all teh way up) with the low sensitivity ewave crossover variant. The room is 900sf and the speakers are 20' away from the listening position. Even very loud the power meters on the amps rarely hit 1.5W and are typically 10 dbs below that. With system sensitivity of 95 db or higher 4.5W should be plenty.

The Zout can be measured more easily than it can be computed. It's difficult to describe but you measure the Vout with varied Rload resistors and solve for the Zout as though it was an unknown resistor in the amp.
 
Vaughn said:
Maybe I'm totally off but if I can get 97db efficiency from a 2226/220ti combo with usable response down to about 40hz in a cabinet of reasonable volume I would be happy. I don't listen at loud levels, I just like it to sound effortless at normal levels:yes: Anyway, it seems like that would be efficient enough for a 4-5 watt amp in my small living room. The amp, btw, is an old console amp rebuilt into an RH84. Not sure what the zout is:scratch2:
Click to expand...

I have been powering my 2226/220ti curved e-waves with a tiny 10watt per channel and undersized transformer powering it for the last couple of months in my garage. They are probably only seeing 5 watts or so each max and they can play plenty loud. Even for mild get togethers this is all the volume that is needed.

Now on the other hand I have also powered them with 450 watts/channel from an EP2500 amp. That is some serious headroom and output. Together they will play well over 120db's in my house.
 
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